Neo-Dynamis Changes

[AzazaelFenrir]

Having the rdm tping slowly as fuck is annoying. There is a point where the time it takes to kill a mob while trying to proc is a waste of time imo. Better to kill off and move on. To clarify, I will not be able to use all katana ws before mob is dead, so I cycle through a few until its dead, usually only 3 but maybe 4 ws. I still wonder what evidence exactly points at it being a 25% chance for all ws, because the most noticable proc missing on my runs have been ws, with a nin and rdm, and only had rdm try and tp like twice and felt like it was wasted.

Additionally, I don't get your point about it being same chance to proc regardless of group size. Large group is going to HAVE to fight VT mobs or I doubt they will ever proc anything at all. If you have 18 people zerging down the ep mobs and trying to proc they will not have the time to even try anything before the mobs are dead. Even if they do work on the VT mobs, I think the problem will always be ws mobs. With an alliance, there isn't that much spell difference between certain classes, and there are even less ja, but if you have purposefully spread out jobs and have every melee class present, and it could be any of the mages weapons, then I can't imagine often proccing weapons. Technically I would say the best combo if you are taking in more than a duo is to take in same jobs not different jobs. Just double up on your duo so can keep spamming same procs.

This all brings up a huge ? mark in my mind. If you enter with 18 and have tons of jobs present, and split up, are you fucking yourself over or is there some amount of range in play? This would be extremely hard to test but pretty important to figure out in regards to trying to split an alliance to farm different areas/NMs.

Don't take my 25% as a set number, I have no clue the exact number, it was just something to throw out there. You seem to be stuck in the abyssea mindset of procing. Where it is a known that 'x, y, and z ws will proc 100% of the time'. The new system is more along the lines of 'all ws have a xx% chance at procing'. If you are all alone every single ws you have has a chance to proc, even things you can't do. If you are a duo, every single ws has a chance to proc, even everything you can't do. Don't have an empy ws? Well all your other ws have the exact same chance to proc.

[Plow]

/dnc gets flourish as well, it's definitely superior

[Jem]

Force pop NMs appear to be immune to the locked two thing. I had my group in Dyna Windy last night and decided to try the PLD/NIN NM in heavens tower. Got a JA stagger and it still invincibled. Thought okay maybe since it was a JA proc I locked the NIN 2 hour. The massive explosion that ended up wiping my little group a little later proved me wrong on that theory.

Out of curiosity what colour stagger was it?

I was talking to Daiiawn last night about the possibility that each TE strengthens the staggers. So it might be something like 1 colour stagger terrors them, 1 colour stagger locks their 2hr and red stagger does both. With red stagger only being available once you have all the time extensions.

I'm not saying that is definitely how it works, just saying it's a possibility because once we have all the TE's we never see any stagger other than Red.

[AzazaelFenrir]

Out of curiosity what colour stagger was it?

I was talking to Daiiawn last night about the possibility that each TE strengthens the staggers. So it might be something like 1 colour stagger terrors them, 1 colour stagger locks their 2hr and red stagger does both. With red stagger only being available once you have all the time extensions.

I'm not saying that is definitely how it works, just saying it's a possibility because once we have all the TE's we never see any stagger other than Red.

I have seen the talk on AH forums about TE's and color and I completely agree with what has been said over there about color/frequency. The stagger in question was a red and it definitely terrored him.

[Jem]

Ah fair enough then. What do the AH forums say? I only really read BG plus our LS forums and what Daiiawn spams me in tells.

[Daiiawn]

Basically what i said on here/in our dyn topic, i basically copied + pasted it to AH forums and a couple of people also seemed to notice the same pattern we got last night

[AzazaelFenrir]

Ah fair enough then. What do the AH forums say? I only really read BG plus our LS forums and what Daiiawn spams me in tells.

The other forums are talking about 3TE's and getting a few staggers, 4TE's get you some more, and then after 5TE's the staggers fall from the sky. People are trying to find a correlation between KI and color. They are also noticing that the colors change based on the number of TE's you have.

[Ophannus]

Perhaps in this case, the color of the stagger is not indicative of the variety of weakness such as in Abyssea(Red=KI, Yellow=Synth/Seals/+2's, Blue=Equip) but rather the degree/grade/quality of the stagger whereby say red=(+25% drop rate) Yellow=(+50% drop rate), Blue=100% Full drop). Just speculation of course.

[Gwynplaine]

Last time when Abyssea came out Square just told us the info. For Voidwatch the NPC help text fills out what you need to know. But now with Dynamis they don't supply any new info. So maybe once this mini update rolls around the hourglass Gobs will have lots of nice helpful stagger info.

[Plow]

Out of curiosity what colour stagger was it?

I was talking to Daiiawn last night about the possibility that each TE strengthens the staggers. So it might be something like 1 colour stagger terrors them, 1 colour stagger locks their 2hr and red stagger does both. With red stagger only being available once you have all the time extensions.

I'm not saying that is definitely how it works, just saying it's a possibility because once we have all the TE's we never see any stagger other than Red.

To further support what a lot of people seem to be saying, I had been clearing te's then killing this whole time, for the first time I stopped yesterday after 4/5, and got my first yellow stagger, and it was 2 yellow in a row. Not long after that I got final te and all staggers from there out were red.

[Sorantia]

I don't know about that, steps and flourishes can proc, that is 6 total ja to attempt to proc with. I had great results but like all random is random shit in ffxi, I am sure there are times when I can have bad luck and not proc but like 25%.

Steps and Flourishes can stagger for sure. I was on DNC/NIN last night and I've staggered with Flourishes and steps. With 7 JAs, I would say that DNC/NIN is the best job to bring to stagger lightweight jobs, and decent at staggering heavy DDs (Perhaps better with DNC/SAM), due to how fast DNC can get their TP.

Just for confirmation, has anyone ever witnessed Steal or Mug or Despoil stagger, because I don't think I was ever able to stagger with those.

[Siatdiat]

Actually I am not stuck in any mindset of proccing but it is clear to me the different possibilities.

1. Every ability present can be a proc, and it will only be 1 of them at a time, this is the view I was operating with.

2. Every ability present can be a proc, and it has a chance to proc with any of them.

The thing is I am now seeing it must be closer to your take on it than mine as apparently solo NIN/WAR using voke isnt always proccing ja, and if the only options are the ones present, it would never fluctuate away from it. However you can see why my opinion was that if you are only having one possible ja ws or magic spell work out of all present, minimizing the number present is important.

If this is how it works then it kind of sucks b/c I can see people spamming stun ws if they have it or w/e low damage shit ws trying to proc ws mobs.

[Daiiawn]

While i havent seen steal/mug proc, i have seen Enmity Douse proc, so would be very surprised if Steal/Mug didnt proc

[Syntex]

I would like to see someone hold a mob and not kill it till it procs all 3 !!. I wonder if doing so might give it a chance at dropping a 100 piece.

Might be hard with weaponskills and whatnot but if you claim with no weapon will it base it off of the things you have upon claim?

I think proccing 2-3 might be where the 100's are at but given how many options for procs you would need a job with limited abilities and weaponskills(maybe a gimp combat skill to narrow down the possibilities). This could use some testing.

[Siatdiat]

Steps and Flourishes can stagger for sure. I was on DNC/NIN last night and I've staggered with Flourishes and steps. With 7 JAs, I would say that DNC/NIN is the best job to bring to stagger lightweight jobs, and decent at staggering heavy DDs (Perhaps better with DNC/SAM), due to how fast DNC can get their TP.

Just for confirmation, has anyone ever witnessed Steal or Mug or Despoil stagger, because I don't think I was ever able to stagger with those.

I'd say 50% of my ja staggers with /dnc were when I used step > flourish > step all in very quick succession at the start of a fight, so its an awesome sub for this if its exactly how it works. Sadly this really fucks over some jobs and makes it into a /dnc fest. I'm sure with an alliance where just 3 people are dnc or /dnc, you can proc ja VERY quickly, magic can be cast pretty quickly by a mage in a duo, but ws are slow with small group, looks like larger groups benefit more on ws type mobs. Now I understand why on the way to getting the TE near castle, I see parties over there killing the harder demons.

[Daiiawn]

I would like to see someone hold a mob and not kill it till it procs all 3 !!. I wonder if doing so might give it a chance at dropping a 100 piece.

Might be hard with weaponskills and whatnot but if you claim with no weapon will it base it off of the things you have upon claim?

I think proccing 2-3 might be where the 100's are at but given how many options for procs you would need a job with limited abilities and weaponskills(maybe a gimp combat skill to narrow down the possibilities). This could use some testing.

With the current theory, that would not be possible, you only get Blue stagger at 3/5 TE's, as soon as you hit 4/5 you switch to yellow and as soon as you hit 5/5 you get red. To add to that it looks like you cant stagger the same mob more than once (never seen it or a SS or it anyway)

[Syntex]

With the current theory, that would not be possible, you only get Blue stagger at 3/5 TE's, as soon as you hit 4/5 you switch to yellow and as soon as you hit 5/5 you get red

I could have sworn we got yellow at 5/5 TE last night along with red but I can't be sure.

[Daiiawn]

I thought exactly the same, then realised in our case it was because one of our members came in late and only had 4/5 TEs so his procs would be yellow, it is possible that the color/te theory is wrong, it only has very limited testing so far, but it does fit with what ive seen and most my groups procs being red

[Fievel]

Ive never seen anything but red, which makes sense with your theory because I go in and kill the 5 te mobs before anything else.

[Sorantia]

I thought exactly the same, then realised in our case it was because one of our members came in late and only had 4/5 TEs so his procs would be yellow, it is possible that the color/te theory is wrong, it only has very limited testing so far, but it does fit with what ive seen and most my groups procs being red

Now that you mentioned it, in one of the earlier Xarcabard run, one person was late, and we were killing some mobs after we got the first TE. I'm pretty sure he came in after we got the first TE. Since then, he was able to stagger some mobs with Yellow with only 4 TEs, but the drops remain the same: Bunch of coins.

Does Kparser have a way to track stagger, or is there a parser that does it?

Actually I am not stuck in any mindset of proccing but it is clear to me the different possibilities.

1. Every ability present can be a proc, and it will only be 1 of them at a time, this is the view I was operating with.

2. Every ability present can be a proc, and it has a chance to proc with any of them.

The thing is I am now seeing it must be closer to your take on it than mine as apparently solo NIN/WAR using voke isnt always proccing ja, and if the only options are the ones present, it would never fluctuate away from it. However you can see why my opinion was that if you are only having one possible ja ws or magic spell work out of all present, minimizing the number present is important.

If this is how it works then it kind of sucks b/c I can see people spamming stun ws if they have it or w/e low damage shit ws trying to proc ws mobs.

I really think #2 fits more. Last night, I was cycling through All the steps and all the flourishes, and cycled through all the ninjutsu. Eventually I would land a stagger, if anything I've yet to fail land a dagger if I just keep cycling as I kill, which leads me to believe that any JA, spells, etc would stagger, but have a low chance of actually doing it.

Though, I have to wonder. Is it really every actions, or is it just mostly the certain higher leveled actions. Have anyone even stagger with low level WSes, say... Wasp Sting or Red Lotus Blade? Or even elemental ninjutsu: ichi? Then again, I'm partially convinced that it really could be any actions, as long as it effects the mobs. I would try to spam steal to see if it does next time I do Dynamis but it's kind of inefficient since I can only do steal once every 5 minutes, let alone mug which is 15 minutes.

I would like to see someone hold a mob and not kill it till it procs all 3 !!. I wonder if doing so might give it a chance at dropping a 100 piece.

With the current Theory going. I don't think that's even possible, other than Grabbing a mob and holding it, and attempt to stagger it, then get TE, and stagger again.

What I have to wonder is, Why is it setup this way. Let's say if by chance Yellow or Blue (though there's no evidence of that) does influence drops differently. Would it really be detrimental to get ALL TE, or is Getting all TE, thus allowing high chance of staggering (getting red) is the best shot for drops?