Voidwatch Discussion

[Ophannus]

I love how the moment anyone posts something that challenges the SAM/DRK/WAR/MNK ONRY paradigm everyone assumes it's because the DDs that won the parse that arent those jobs were parsing against incompetent melees. Ever consider the inverse, that when SAM/DRK/WAR/MNK outparses NINs or DRGs that those NINs and DRGs were just poorly geared dual wielding 2x level 90 Sekkas or a Patientia Lance?

[Alkimi]

Thanks SE for including a Caturae that eats all your ability timers right before you do Provenance Watcher!

And that charm/add effect: charm one can just die in a huge fire.

[Darkmagi]

I am certain that the DDs you are outparsing are not adequate players. NIN and DRG are both inferior DDs in voidwatch, though SAM is as well on that note. If you compare a good drg or nin with one of the above jobs who is equally good, there will be no competition.

[Ophannus]

If anything SAM and DRG are more powerful now than ever since Miser roll/SaveTP/Ukon/Bloodrage nerfs and Jump timer buffs. Can usually pump out a higher WS frequency than a WAR easily now and be pretty competitive with their damage just by virtue of WSing more often than them, same for SAM. Ukko's is still extremely powerful by in terms of WS damage vs WS frequency, SAM, NIN and DRG still WS more than WARs and MNKs and can come close, if not surpass them given the same buffs. Hell if anything, RNG with Annihilator or Yoichi trounces a Ukon WAR completely.


Legomyfuego 15320 8.45 % 6541 0 0 8779 0 0 0
Legomyfuego 8779 0 8779 57.30 % 7/0 100.00 % 531/2138 1254.14
- Catastrophe 8779 0 8779 100.00 % 7/0 100.00 % 531/2138 1254.14


Nubbinater 29912 16.50 % 8260 0 0 21073 0 579 0
Nubbinater 21073 0 21073 70.45 % 13/0 100.00 % 388/2321 1621.00
- Metatron Torment 21073 0 21073 100.00 % 13/0 100.00 % 388/2321 1621.00

Ophannus 32173 17.75 % 3328 0 702 28143 0 0 0
Ophannus 28143 0 28143 87.47 % 13/0 100.00 % 1230/3126 2164.85
- Stardiver 28143 0 28143 100.00 % 13/0 100.00 % 1230/3126 2164.85

Toomuchgoodstuf 5736 3.16 % 1030 0 0 4706 0 0 0
Toomuchgoodstuf 4706 0 4706 82.04 % 4/0 100.00 % 822/1584 1176.50
- Tachi: Shoha 4706 0 4706 100.00 % 4/0 100.00 % 822/1584 1176.50

Trilander 42143 23.25 % 0 11354 6426 24363 0 0 0
Trilander 24363 0 24363 57.81 % 8/0 100.00 % 2661/3780 3045.38
- Namas Arrow 24363 0 24363 100.00 % 8/0 100.00 % 2661/3780 3045.38

Stachysaurus from a few weeks ago. DRG is 'inferior' but my WS damage is pretty respectable is it not? 1.2-3.1k with 2.1k average isn't half bad I'd like to think. Sure WARs can still do 3k-4k+ Ukko's but since the nerf it's not as consistent as it once was.

[Darkmagi]

DRG will either be either missing 10% haste, or be lacking ATK. The only thing DRG competes on is low tier content with high atk buffs. You will not be competing with a properly buffed/played/geared DRK, MNK, or WAR.

[Darkmagi]

What am I supposed to be seeing here? I'm seeing a bunch of terrible WS averages from obvious gimps. Comparing yourself with terrible players does not justify your job in anyway, good try though.

[Taint]

What am I supposed to be seeing here? I'm seeing a bunch of terrible WS averages from obvious gimps. Comparing yourself with terrible players does not justify your job in anyway, good try though.

^ This

Those numbers prove either the players are garbage or they were missing buffs.

[Seph]

I get where you're coming from but it's just fitting it in somewhere. Unless I want to gimp overall damage by having a NIN instead of a proper DD they'll have to be in the misc party which atm for us is SCH BLMx2 BLU SMN THF. Maybe 2 of those can be replaced with another job (SMN and THF) but at the loss of a whole other set of triggers or a decent amount of Treasure Hunter.

Ignoring Katana alone is risky enough,
but still you rather gimp other people by subbing /dnc and /nin (only nin can cover both of these in the same time) instead of letting others sub real DD subjob because you want extra damage what? lol
Ignoring some Ninjutsu that only main nin can land (ignored San spells)

Seems stupid to me.

[Alkimi]

Had the BLU /NIN and the THF /DNC. However you do it there'll always be some trigger you can't hit anyway, you just take your chances. Doubt anyone will take BST or PUP and they're both possibilities.

[dasva]

That's because they don't realize just how hard a bst can DD!!! (not being completely facetious either bet I could beat that nin at least lol.)

[Seph]

Had the BLU /NIN and the THF /DNC. However you do it there'll always be some trigger you can't hit anyway, you just take your chances. Doubt anyone will take BST or PUP and they're both possibilities.

Ignoring Katana alone is risky enough

Katana 10 WS weakness
Kurayami ICHI+NI
Hojo ICHI+NI
Yurin: Ichi
Jubaku: Ichi
Aisha: Ichi
Dokumori

Comparing all of that to 1 possible chance of BST (Sheep charge) or pup is laughable.
And that's with ignoring how nin helps greatly with dagger+spamming spells to call process or other benefits i mentioned before.
You want to save 1 spot for extra DD to deal "more damage" then you gimp 2 other DD jobs by subbing crap subjobs and dealing "less damage" is self defeating.

Might as well leave your blu-smn-blm out and get more wars to deal more damage right? lol epic fail

[Churchill]

This bring a ninja argument is stupid, ninja sucks for a zerg and isn't relevant enough for procs. It's good enough as a SJ.

I don't really care to hear otherwise and I'm not going to ever be convinced to bring one to a zerg because again, I don't fucking care.

Neither does anyone else, argument over.

[fantasticdan]

Had the BLU /NIN and the THF /DNC. However you do it there'll always be some trigger you can't hit anyway, you just take your chances. Doubt anyone will take BST or PUP and they're both possibilities.

The probability amongst procs is clearly not equal thou, katana and ninjutsu are common procs, bst|pup stuff are not (not to mention the impracticality of hitting those procs anyway.) Not taking a nin seems to be a bad place to draw the line, even if you can cover like 60% of ninjutsu subbed.

This bring a ninja argument is stupid, ninja sucks for a zerg and isn't relevant enough for procs. It's good enough as a SJ.

I don't really care to hear otherwise and I'm not going to ever be convinced to bring one to a zerg because again, I don't fucking care.

Neither does anyone else, argument over.

And no one cares what you do or don't care about, this isn't the churchill discussion thread. If your success hinges on the damage difference between 1 nin switching to war or drk, you have bigger problems anyway.

[Alkimi]

THF and BLU are not there for DD in our setup, hence the lack of support. They can do a bit of damage but nowhere near the 6 main DDs.

Turns out from all 4 fights today we didn't need NIN main once, but we needed SMN twice for EV and HV trigger. You carry on taking NIN and we'll carry on not taking one.

[Seph]

This bring a ninja argument is stupid, ninja sucks for a zerg and isn't relevant enough for procs. It's good enough as a SJ.

I don't really care to hear otherwise and I'm not going to ever be convinced to bring one to a zerg because again, I don't fucking care.

Neither does anyone else, argument over.

Katana 10 WS weakness
Kurayami ICHI+NI
Hojo ICHI+NI
Yurin: Ichi
Jubaku: Ichi
Aisha: Ichi
Dokumoril

That's alone relevant enough more than most of other jobs
I'm done with this, there is a difference between clear stupidity "by choice" and ignorance, isn't relevant enough for procs? bring a decent excuse at least with such a stupid claims

THF and BLU are not there for DD in our setup, hence the lack of support. They can do a bit of damage but nowhere near the 6 main DDs.

Learn to read, damage was not the main point, stop the cherry picking and realize the stupidity of leaving a nin out or the reasons why then argue it, you never talked about the nin main procs i mentioned (as if you became a blind and jumped over them) and you did that for more than 1 post.

The probability amongst procs is clearly not equal thou, katana and ninjutsu are common procs, bst|pup stuff are not (not to mention the impracticality of hitting those procs anyway.) Not taking a nin seems to be a bad place to draw the line, even if you can cover like 60% of ninjutsu subbed.

Thank you for posting something with sense in here, for a second i thought i was in allakhazam forums

[Churchill]

I bring 6 DD's, and I'm too lazy to make the PLD change or use an outside SCH. If anything, I'm just going to exclude Ninja purposefully now. I'll still kill Prov Watcher without any issues and I'll have ostracized a shit VW job. What are your questions?

[Taint]

Whats the point in procing Watcher in the first place? Dude goes down fast with heavy DD and good stunners. Good groups are going to stack DDs and buffs and burn him down with a proc or two. Bad groups are going to build a proc pty and risk a slower kill. Last I checked the longer the fight the greater the chance to wipe.

[blackmail]

I bring 6 DD's, and I'm too lazy to make the PLD change or use an outside SCH. If anything, I'm just going to exclude Ninja purposefully now. I'll still kill Prov Watcher without any issues and I'll have ostracized a shit VW job. What are your questions?

Shit like this always makes me remember the assault "Excavation Duty." (the one with the rock walls that take little damage).

When assaults were first released, we were convinced that our setup "Mnk Mnk Mnk War Brd/nin (joy+merc?) Rdm/nin (Joy+ w/e) was the best way to smash the walls before time ran out. We won and excluded all linkshell members that didn't have the aforementioned jobs available.

Then someone found out there was an easier, more flexible way to do it. Thanks be to he/she that operated under the philosophy of "Play smarter, not harder."

Question:

Have you considered 2d fighting games or fps? They might better suit your playstyle (/smashface)......

[ccl]

and I'm too lazy to make the PLD change

You guys bring paladin in provenance ? Why ? If it's to hold the Caturae, we just use a blu/pld for it, mob die so fast anyjob can hold them np, today a corsair was holding it.

As for PW we do it with 3-4 solid DD + cor/brd/sch + thf buff rest are stun / proc job, ukon war rape it ussually die in 3-4min, never really paid attention,

[Churchill]

Primarily lazyness, and it being so easy that it doesn't really matter. You need a grand total of 1 HQ and 2~3 NQ procs to go off to win the fight safely.