Voidwatch Discussion

[Deader2818]

So really, SE is saying its kinda pointless to do content as it comes out and just wait for the whole thing to be done so then it will be easier because they will make everything easier to do?

[Plow]

I quit right when vw was released, got my stones started but never did anything. I have like 500 stones without either exploration, but I haven't seen a shout for anything remotely near the early stuff like ever.

That post may well have ruined a good pair of shorts.

[Arthars]

yes.... i have wasted countless stones in chapter 1 and i have been trolled

just like abyssea, it seems that a content gets super juicy at the final chapter when ur able to use 3 atmacites, able to tell exactly the weaknesses

voidwrought and Calaeno way back in chapter 1 is tougher than other NMs

[Slycer]

loltickets. Better late than never, I guess? I'm glad about the Prov Watcher drops, though (the weapons have a good rate, but the scrolls and armor are stupid low), and that they're putting the Provenance procs as the general procs everywhere.

[Slycer]

Had SE had some brains and made those scrolls Rare/Ex, then this debate wouldn't even be an issue. These spells (admittedly, Arise is completely underwhelming) should have been seen almost as a job relic in themselves, and I would have rather seen them require the ability to get to the event rather than just purchased.

Honestly, I had always hoped that Meteor was going to be quest based with some insane stipulations that would prevent most from doing it because of a mixture of gil, time, battles- the way we see relics and mythics done. Oh well though, I guess a sellable drop was the way to go instead of a RNG rare/ex body piece in a personal box right?

I said something very similar to this entire post a few months ago before the scrolls were added to the game. The way they just plopped those scrolls in as drops as a low drop rate on a time-consuming BC (taking the radiance battles into account) is rather disappointing.

[Karbuncle]

So really, SE is saying its kinda pointless to do content as it comes out and just wait for the whole thing to be done so then it will be easier because they will make everything easier to do?

well. A while back they actually said something along the lines of... and I'm Negatively Paraphrasing this... "We're going to release new events to be nothing but frustrating, ridiculous, bottle-necked Time Sinks to buy us as much time as possible, and as time goes on, We'll ease up on those events to make them easier."

You can look this up on the OF, Its in a Voidwatch thread if i recall, But the above is pretty much what they said. They intend to release content to suck ass at first, then slowly ease up on its restrictions as time goes by.

Personally, I've stopped being shocked by the stupid things this company will say. Some of the stuff is so mind-boggling I wonder how they're not bankrupted by their stupidity.

[Plow]

well. A while back they actually said something along the lines of... and I'm Negatively Paraphrasing this... "We're going to release new events to be nothing but frustrating, ridiculous, bottle-necked Time Sinks to buy us as much time as possible, and as time goes on, We'll ease up on those events to make them easier."

You can look this up on the OF, Its in a Voidwatch thread if i recall, But the above is pretty much what they said. They intend to release content to suck ass at first, then slowly ease up on its restrictions as time goes by.

Personally, I've stopped being shocked by the stupid things this company will say. Some of the stuff is so mind-boggling I wonder how they're not bankrupted by their stupidity.

Yeah, it's not like any extremely successful game has had this model for years and it's worked perfectly or anything.

[Karbuncle]

Yeah, it's not like any extremely successful game has had this model for years and it's worked perfectly or anything.

That makes it not stupid? Interesting.

The only reason any of those games are "successful" is the word "Addiction". Not because they're good design ideas. Hell, The only reason FFXI still has a sliver of player base is 'Addiction".

[Plow]

That makes it not stupid? Interesting.

The only reason any of those games are "successful" is the word "Addiction". Not because they're good design ideas. Hell, The only reason FFXI still has a sliver of player base is 'Addiction".

No. That game is successful because they don't make 99% of content accessible to 1% of the playerbase.

Kind of like, you know, what's completely saved FFXI's ass.

It's not stupid because different people want different levels of challenge. This allows them to grant that without having to make shitloads of different content where a small percentage of people ever bother with each individual part. Rather, they can make shitloads of content and allow everyone to reach it, with their level of challenge desire only determining when, not if, they can participate.

[Wardeniii]

I figured further VW nerfs would come eventually, and I particularly lol'd at "being able to weaken enemies for a fee" (whether that be cruor, weakening cells, or gil--I have no idea).

I couldn't care less if there are a billion Toci's harnesses running around that people go 1/5 on. Honestly, the majority of people who wanted gear went out and got it (aside from the handful of seasoned people we all know who spammed an NM and are still 0/300+ on a body/etc--which is unfortunate); the people who were too lazy to spam VW now/a few months ago will likely still be too lazy to do it now--and furthermore, a good bit of those people will also still be too stupid to know what the gear is even good for.

[dasva]

Yeah I'm sorta glad. Aside from like 2-3 peices (lol ogiers body whirlwind dirs and something else mediocre iirc) there is nothing I got in less than 100 and most have been 200+. Well talking good stuff not things like lolmantiseye. God I'm still 0/200-300 on a few things now. My luck is horrible. Either that or SE was trolling us and all those cells I've been using have been lowering my droprate

[Celebrindor]

Had SE had some brains and made those scrolls Rare/Ex, then this debate wouldn't even be an issue. These spells (admittedly, Arise is completely underwhelming) should have been seen almost as a job relic in themselves, and I would have rather seen them require the ability to get to the event rather than just purchased.

Honestly, I had always hoped that Meteor was going to be quest based with some insane stipulations that would prevent most from doing it because of a mixture of gil, time, battles- the way we see relics and mythics done. Oh well though, I guess a sellable drop was the way to go instead of a RNG rare/ex body piece in a personal box right?

Making meteor rare is ridiculous considering its benefit comes from doing the spell with other BLMs. Alone, its only benefit is from the resistance factor.

Because making it an extremely rare drop that is currently rotting in bazaars for 20mil+ is conducive to doing the spell with other BLMs. Versus a person who truly loves the character doing the solo work of a questline (the gil sink, ala relic/mythic currency) then teaming up with other people for the battles (ala attestations, marrows, etc) as they require.

Yeah, people would never do that.

[Karbuncle]

No. That game is successful because they don't make 99% of content accessible to 1% of the playerbase.

Kind of like, you know, what's completely saved FFXI's ass.

....... What? How did we get from you defending making content ridiculously tedious and unfulfilling with no hint of progression... to content accessibility.

It's not stupid because different people want different levels of challenge.

What's challenging about a R.N.G of Drop Rates? Please clarify. I understand what you're saying at its base. but there are far better ways to give different levels of challenge for different people. I'm pretty sure most MMO's today have a design where you can set the difficulty of the dungeon you're about to do.

Making the Drop rates 0.5~1% Is not "Challenging". If you believe it is, You may have been playing FFXI a little too long. Though, As spelled out below, I'm kinda hoping our argument is simply a bad miscommunication.

otherwise i get to laugh at you thinking challenge comes from a RNG.

Rather, they can make shitloads of content and allow everyone to reach it, with their level of challenge desire only determining when, not if, they can participate.

You do realize I was bitching about their design plan is "Make everything Suck at first by having low low drop rates, Then slowly fix it once people stop doing the content/get their stuff/it becomes obsolete"... Right?

I think you're looking at it from me saying "They should never make it easier" Prospective, I'm not saying that, in fact, nowhere near am I saying that. I fucking love Abyssea-Style content and being able to do an event that actually rewards me for my time and effort i put into it.

I'm saying it shouldn't be a "Start the event with 1% Fun/Reward-to-effort-ratio, 99% Bottlenecking", It should start the event to be Fun and rewarding. It should take a little time, But the biggest challenge of any event should not be the 1% Drop rate. I'm saying Voidwatch is f**king terrible because the biggest challenging is finding the motivation to actually grind the damn mobs 4-12 more times for absolutely no increased chance of getting that drop with 0.5% drop rate that will probably already go to the guy who has 3.

Voidwatch is not a good design no matter how you look at it. Even the most addicted players (hint:Me) are going to give up and quit the game when they hit 0/500 On something. Its not successful because its enjoyable or can keep new/unaddicted players coming back, Its "successful" because half the population here has a Gamblers mindset and wouldn't stop playing FFXI until the servers were closed and they were forced too.

Hopefully spelling it out in the most clear way possible will fix some of the miscommunications here.

[NynJa]

I wish my chars had that high hidden luck stat...still no glowy bodies/weapons on any of my 3 chars.

[Karbuncle]

I wish my chars had that high hidden luck stat...still no glowy bodies/weapons on any of my 3 chars.

Day before i let my account i expire i got the Cure Potency Body... It was like the game realized i was quitting because I was fed up with Voidwatch content kicking me in the balls... (Last tally was 0/600 or so Combined no drop from Pil, Kaggen, Akvan, Biggest offender being Pil, About 0/350 on him)

Too little too late evil Random Number Generator! I kinda wish i had your motivation to continue playing. Sometimes I think to myself I wish I Could log in... Then i remember the only thing worth doing is Neo-Nyzul of Voidwatch... Voidwatch can go Fu*k itself with the Petrified logs it keeps giving us, and Neo-Nyzul requires a skilled competent group... Of which any people I know who would be skilled enough... Already have a group.

Sadness

[Kujah2010]

So Provenance Watcher update seems good, instead of constantly dropping Sword or Staff he now drops em both at same time!

Spoiler: show

[Imoq]

So Provenance Watcher update seems good, instead of constantly dropping Sword or Staff he now drops em both at same time!

Spoiler: show

Tanaka: TROLLFACE

[Plow]

....... What? How did we get from you defending making content ridiculously tedious and unfulfilling with no hint of progression... to content accessibility.



What's challenging about a R.N.G of Drop Rates? Please clarify. I understand what you're saying at its base. but there are far better ways to give different levels of challenge for different people. I'm pretty sure most MMO's today have a design where you can set the difficulty of the dungeon you're about to do.

Making the Drop rates 0.5~1% Is not "Challenging". If you believe it is, You may have been playing FFXI a little too long. Though, As spelled out below, I'm kinda hoping our argument is simply a bad miscommunication.

otherwise i get to laugh at you thinking challenge comes from a RNG.



You do realize I was bitching about their design plan is "Make everything Suck at first by having low low drop rates, Then slowly fix it once people stop doing the content/get their stuff/it becomes obsolete"... Right?

I think you're looking at it from me saying "They should never make it easier" Prospective, I'm not saying that, in fact, nowhere near am I saying that. I fucking love Abyssea-Style content and being able to do an event that actually rewards me for my time and effort i put into it.

I'm saying it shouldn't be a "Start the event with 1% Fun/Reward-to-effort-ratio, 99% Bottlenecking", It should start the event to be Fun and rewarding. It should take a little time, But the biggest challenge of any event should not be the 1% Drop rate. I'm saying Voidwatch is f**king terrible because the biggest challenging is finding the motivation to actually grind the damn mobs 4-12 more times for absolutely no increased chance of getting that drop with 0.5% drop rate that will probably already go to the guy who has 3.

Voidwatch is not a good design no matter how you look at it. Even the most addicted players (hint:Me) are going to give up and quit the game when they hit 0/500 On something. Its not successful because its enjoyable or can keep new/unaddicted players coming back, Its "successful" because half the population here has a Gamblers mindset and wouldn't stop playing FFXI until the servers were closed and they were forced too.

Hopefully spelling it out in the most clear way possible will fix some of the miscommunications here.

Oh I think you've totally misunderstood me. I have no issue with the drop rates being more reasonable to start with. My entire reason for liking the system of start hard > nerf later is accessibility.

Drop rate issues are total bullshit in any game, but they're in place to keep us busy, not going to change until someone decides to dedicate a shitload of resources to constant new content in an mmo. Maybe when the other designers see people will pay $30 a month to get a whole new raid every month, they'll follow suit, but currently this is the shitty but established way to make money on subscription games.

[Karah]

So apparently, -nothing- we were told was going to be changed, was actually changed.

No tickets, no change in proc system, no enfeebling changes, no adjusting difficulty of mobs per party size, prov still drops bullshit, just twice as much.

All they did was ninja nyzul, yeah?

[Alistrianna]

So apparently, -nothing- we were told was going to be changed, was actually changed.

No tickets, no change in proc system, no enfeebling changes, no adjusting difficulty of mobs per party size, prov still drops bullshit, just twice as much.

All they did was ninja nyzul, yeah?

Most of the Voidwatch changes, like tickets and proc system, they specified they were adding next version update, not this one.