Voidwatch Discussion

[Khamsin]

JP usually asign specific spells to different people:

SCH: Tier 3,4, Storm
BLM1: -GA -JA
BLM2: Ancient 1,2

So whenever magic comes up you have a high chance of quickly staggering that if it´s not NIN or BLU. Also seen them bring 2x BLU and spread out spells between them. Smns can repeatedly "Assault" and "Retreat" to get hints also.

Who does tier 2 and 5? Would make more sense to have the SCH do tiers 4 and 5 (except Thunder V which one of the BLMs can get) and let the RDM do tier 2, 3, slow/para/blind 2, etc.

[Yugl]

http://pastebin.com/zvj6z5FG

That's what I've been wanting to roll with. The LS disagrees greatly sadly.

[Foldypaws]

Some of those job choices are really weird. drg/dnc? smn/pld ? Have the pup /dnc, and the smn /mage or something.

And BLU doesn't have time to melee in between all the spell swapping they're doing, have them /mage. (as a BLU, I usually /RDM or /WHM for VW).

[Kaisha]

Who does tier 2 and 5?

In my runs, RDM & SCH tend to split T2-4 duty (you check Fire, I'll check Wind, etc). T5 isn't a trigger.

Shame all the GA2 are not subbable, would have been a decent way to alleviate BLM of more triggers since GA3/JA/AM1&2 can hog MP if it's been awhile since red !! for temps.

[Yugl]

Some of those job choices are really weird. drg/dnc? smn/pld ? Have the pup /dnc, and the smn /mage or something.

And BLU doesn't have time to melee in between all the spell swapping they're doing, have them /mage. (as a BLU, I usually /RDM or /WHM for VW).

The set up was made to maximize procs quickly while covering the most procs possible (Typically, these conflict).

DRG/DNC handles most DNC abilities and DRG. If you're using NIN or MNK to tank (Not good for high tier zilarts, but doable with t3 Jeuno [even better for stuff like akvan]), then you need PLD procs, so SMN/PLD gets you those. WHM can handle most (All?) of PLD's spells. BLU/NIN is just to speed up NIN procs since their damage tends to be irrelevant due to spell mongering. DRG v PUP damage I was uncertain of. Personally, DRG hasn't done that much damage to TIII NMs (900-1.7k range). If people have different experiences and want to offer advice for more damage, feel free to do so. I am using temps and my gear is not bad by comparison. If the difference between the two, during blitz, is negligible, then DRG has superior TP gain, so I chose that.

[Deader2818]

Honestly, I go with more DD heavy set up because it tends to be easier to find Blue procs then Red procs and if you zerg whenever you get a blue proc, Red will just naturally cap through that with the red proc here and there. I for sure dont bring a SCH and sometimes dont even bother with a blu.

[Foldypaws]

I can't speak for other DRG, but I've parsed 10+ Qilins, and I always do at least 10% of the total damage, sometimes 20%+ I've won parses vs Ukko wars Vere monks and Fudo SAM.

I mean, if this is for an LS, you'd know what the people on the jobs are capable of, but I assure you, a well played DRG is going to outdamage a PUP by quite a bit.

[Atoreis]

Solo tanked ( with WARs occasionally taking hate after blitz ofc ) Akvan,Pil,Kaggen on MNK. Akvan and Kaggen with my LS which were 12 ppl only (cuz ppl busy at this time of the year (at least they told me that is the reason XD)). Pils with JPs shout group. I had no problems at all so PLD not really needed.
Guy who make JP PUGs often and takes me in usually have something like:

1.
MNK
PLD
WHM
BRD
COR
something

2.
WAR
WAR
DRK
COR
WHM

3.
RDM
BLM
SCH
BLU


Now there is also NIN SMN RNG but I dont know in which party.

PLD with MNK fulltime tank (beside one time when there was no PLD and I solo tanked like I said as start ) and other DD runs in doing full damage for blitz or staggers if they know its their weapon ( both always on fanatic ). Never had issue over 30 runs beside one time when we had very bad BLU and all proc were BLU. We literally hold Pil for 20 min so he can stagger it and he didnt lol. He was switching like 4-5 spells at once instead of like 15. He was trying to stagger with soporofic, dream flower and jettatura also casted sandspray from behind

[Colenzo]

Solo tanked ( with WARs occasionally taking hate after blitz ofc ) Akvan,Pil,Kaggen on MNK. Akvan and Kaggen with my LS which were 12 ppl only (cuz ppl busy at this time of the year (at least they told me that is the reason XD)). Pils with JPs shout group. I had no problems at all so PLD not really needed.
Guy who make JP PUGs often and takes me in usually have something like:

1.
MNK
PLD
WHM
BRD
COR
something

2.
WAR
WAR
DRK
COR
WHM

3.
RDM
BLM
SCH
BLU


Now there is also NIN SMN RNG but I dont know in which party.

PLD with MNK fulltime tank (beside one time when there was no PLD and I solo tanked like I said as start ) and other DD runs in doing full damage for blitz or staggers if they know its their weapon ( both always on fanatic ). Never had issue over 30 runs beside one time when we had very bad BLU and all proc were BLU. We literally hold Pil for 20 min so he can stagger it and he didnt lol. He was switching like 4-5 spells at once instead of like 15. He was trying to stagger with soporofic, dream flower and jettatura also casted sandspray from behind

ooooh boy you nasty!

[Yugl]

I can't speak for other DRG, but I've parsed 10+ Qilins, and I always do at least 10% of the total damage, sometimes 20%+ I've won parses vs Ukko wars Vere monks and Fudo SAM.

I mean, if this is for an LS, you'd know what the people on the jobs are capable of, but I assure you, a well played DRG is going to outdamage a PUP by quite a bit.

I'll take your word for it since I've managed to miss all our Qilin runs. How is your WS average on Qilin/Akvan/Kaggen? Laptop issues have prevented parsing, so I can only have an idea of average WS dmg (Not frequency and such).

[Atoreis]

Qilin parse is very rarely valid. WAR usually need to stagger when DRG will more often just DD. I once destroyed Ukko WAR on my MNK completely when other time we were much closer. Its random like all short parses especially considering WHM priority for erasing/hasting,stona. Lets say DRG will be 2nd for stona and 2nd to get erase/haste. In 4 min fight that will probably be at least 3-5% assuming 4-5 DDs there.

[Deader2818]

DRG is a strong DD. I don't know why this is still news to people.

[EjinCaitsith]

You're parsing against terrible wars? Doing a Pil as i was reading this and my WS numbers are:

- Ukko's Fury 47547 0 47547 100.00% 16/0 100.00% 1243/5689 2971.69

Only DD that ever comes close to beating me is mnk, and that's because mob usually dies before impetus wears.

edit: buffs are: rcb, march x2, regain/save tp rolls.

[Atoreis]

You're parsing against terrible wars? Doing a Pil as i was reading this and my WS numbers are:

- Ukko's Fury 47547 0 47547 100.00% 16/0 100.00% 1243/5689 2971.69

Only DD that ever comes close to beating me is mnk, and that's because mob usually dies before impetus wears.

edit: buffs are: rcb, march x2, regain/save tp rolls.

Damn 5689/2971 is damn impressive my highest Vsmite was like 4400 and I usually have minuet and sometimes chaos rolls (tho usually use marinara so att buffs would be close). You happen to break 5k often?

[EjinCaitsith]

Damn 5689/2971 is damn impressive my highest Vsmite was like 4400 and I usually have minuet and sometimes chaos rolls (tho usually use marinara so att buffs would be close). You happen to break 5k often?

5K+ isn't very common, but usually hit 4K~ easily when BR is up.

[Atoreis]

5K+ isn't very common, but usually hit 4K~ easily when BR is up.

dont want to ot here so gonna write a pm ;P

[Foldypaws]

You're parsing against terrible wars? Doing a Pil as i was reading this and my WS numbers are:

- Ukko's Fury 47547 0 47547 100.00% 16/0 100.00% 1243/5689 2971.69

Only DD that ever comes close to beating me is mnk, and that's because mob usually dies before impetus wears.

edit: buffs are: rcb, march x2, regain/save tp rolls.

That's not that much higher than the WARs I've parsed against


From a random parse I happened to save:

- Ukko's Fury 40929 100.00 % 15/0 100.00 % 1147/4624 2728.60

By comparison:

- Drakesbane 30342 100.00 % 26/0 100.00 % 501/1911 1167.00

From the same parse.

WAR had COR rolls + Bard Songs (Same as you), I only had Bard songs.

You're right in that I usually only win when others are busy finding procs, but my point is that I can put up a decent chunk of damage on DRG. And I just have a Def Down Lang +3. Once I have Mythic, I'll take any WAR on XD

(Total damage for that particular parse was 17% for the WAR, 14% for me.)

(That was Qilin, not Pil.)

[EjinCaitsith]

Well, your first post was misleading, saying you've beaten all of those jobs, when really, you shouldn't be, unless they are doing something wrong.

I never meant to say DRG wasn't a good DD, just that it should never come close to ukon war, unless it has mystic, but even then, I have my doubts it can keep up with MNK and WAR.

[Darkmagi]

I just prefer going with red proc party with every single red proc, + 2 heavy DD parties with brd and cor. Everything dies within 5mins with capped red, and usually cap or near cap blue. Would be nice if someone could find out if blue actually helped with rare drops, but massively increased kill speed beats out having blue capped anyways if it did imo.

[Foldypaws]

Well, your first post was misleading, saying you've beaten all of those jobs, when really, you shouldn't be, unless they are doing something wrong.

I never meant to say DRG wasn't a good DD, just that it should never come close to ukon war, unless it has mystic, but even then, I have my doubts it can keep up with MNK and WAR.

I'm pretty sure the reason I've beaten them on Qilin is because I can usually ignore Fanatic's and just ride Fool's, between Super Jump and High Jump and the fact that he doesn't have any physical AoE, I can usually avoid pulling hate, so I can keep DDing while everyone else is asleep/petra/slow. That's not them doing anything wrong.

That's admittedly a special case for Qilin though. I'm sure that in a straight out fight where nothing mattered except damage output that I'd lose, probably by more than 4% total damage, until I got a mythic.

With a mythic, I'm pretty sure I could win. It more than *doubles* my damage according to the DPS spreadsheet, and the worst gap I've ever seen between myself and an Ukko war is them at 23% and myself at 12%.


The real point I'm trying to make in all of this is don't have your DRG sub DNC, that's all!