Keyboard suggestions, Mechanical vs Traditional

[Kerberoz]

The only thing stopping me from buying a mechanical keyboard is the fear that I'd turn into a complete wanker over it. They're like the hi-fi audio cables of the computing world.

[Slott]

I've been reading around on geekhack for the better part of last week and I still can't make up my mind on what I want. I did really like the Razer keyboard, mostly because of it's aesthetics, but seeing how bad the keys wear down after use is a serious turn off. The main problem I'm having is that there are so many different types of switches. I have no clue which Cherry switch would be best suited for my needs. What do you have against blues for gaming Boyiee? Is it that they require too much force to press or something else?

Basically my situation is this:
I game a shit load, mostly MMO's/RPG's and that kind of stuff. I occasionally play RTS and FPS but MMO's are the vast majority. I do chat a lot on aim, post on forums, and most importantly I do programming, so I type quite a bit. So what color is ideal in this situation? Boyiee, you seem to favor clears and browns, can you elaborate a bit more on why? I know the browns require less force to actuate than the blues(45g vs 50g), but I have no idea what the whites require(didn't see them listed for comparison in that FAQ on geekhack).

I've never actually had an LED backlit keyboard and I'm not entirely sure it's necessary. I don't have any problem finding keys in the dark, so it's more of just a flavor thing. I really like the idea of the Deck board, but I'm not a fan of the look of it. I know that probably sounds ridiculous but I can't help it. I'd be more inclined to go with a DAS or Filco based on appearance, but again I have no idea which switch to use. This might be better to post on geekhack but I figure I'd post here first. Any thoughts guys?

What key weardown are you talking about? I've been using a blackwidow ultimate since release and I see 0 weardown on any of the keys (checked this morning to make sure after reading this). I use the keyboard for a lot...wow, hon, sc2, whatever else, so it's not like I don't use the keyboard daily. As for the aesthetics, I like keeping the keyboard on a full blue glow at the highest setting, and it just looks awesome. Really not finding any downsides to the keyboard, it's comfortable, each key feels like it's coated in a material that coats it to have a better grip feeling, yet softer than a normal plastic key. Didn't want some random review to post falsified info that you follow.

[Salodin]

After all this I'm still a little lost on keyboards. I want something ~80$, durable, and great for gaming. Can some one list me a few options and recommendations? If the clicking noise people talk about is comparable to those old school IBM keyboards from like the late 80s, I don't know if I want. I can deal with some noise, but yeah...that noise was loud and annoying.

[avelle]

What key weardown are you talking about? I've been using a blackwidow ultimate since release and I see 0 weardown on any of the keys (checked this morning to make sure after reading this). I use the keyboard for a lot...wow, hon, sc2, whatever else, so it's not like I don't use the keyboard daily. As for the aesthetics, I like keeping the keyboard on a full blue glow at the highest setting, and it just looks awesome. Really not finding any downsides to the keyboard, it's comfortable, each key feels like it's coated in a material that coats it to have a better grip feeling, yet softer than a normal plastic key. Didn't want some random review to post falsified info that you follow.

I can't for the life of me find the picture of the Blackwidow that had worn down keycaps(lettering was completely gone). I know I saw it but there's no telling when I saw it. It's probably a case where that person was the exception, not the norm. I'll keep digging but there's no telling if I'll run across it again.

Truthfully, I'm glad to see people stick up for the Blackwidow because it's such an attractive board. There are quite a few people on geekhack that think it's a fine board as well. Right now I'm still not sure which way I'll go. I'm still trying to get more information on Blues vs Browns and ultimately that will probably be the decision maker.

[Boyiee]

Ok, I'm back, gonna update this post like 3 times with a few quotes so bare with me.

LED backlit keyboards are a gimmick for people that can't touch type.

I have one, but it serves literally no purpose whatsoever. I don't even need to have the letters on the keys.

First, they are not a gimmick for people that cant touch type. I almost bought the Das with blanks, but I just prefer the lit keyboard. Basically when I'm playing an mmo, and I need to press modifiers in arenas and I'm doing shift+ctrl+ reaching out to something like H or B, I will once in a while glance down. I don't really ever look at my keyboard, like right now I'm not, but it is lit and once in a while I'll look down and having that brightly lit key is great. Once I went backlit, I couldn't go back... at least on my personal machines. We have non-backlit at work of course that I do my charting on, and it is fine and all. But there is something about it being pitch black at night, looking down cause I had a finger on the wrong key or something and having it look back at me.

The main reason people get Browns or other options is mostly the noise, not the tactile feedback.

Everything I've read from people on geekhack is that blues are great for gaming. There's people on there that do hardcore SC2 gaming with them, and that takes a LOT of very fast key clicking.

Blues vs browns are the great debate. Browns are typically thought of to be better for gaming, but this is looking from an FPS point of view. You want the quicker response, the softer press for the response. The blues provide a click when actuated and are better from a typing standpoint. But really, both are pretty similar. Yeah, some hardcore SC2 players play on Blues, but some play on browns. It really is just personal preference. I liked the browns for running shooters, I can tell you that, but my sister said she could hear me typing from down the hall... mainly because for the week I had it I was bottoming out the keys when you barely need to really press them to get them to function. Typed a report on it, lol that was retarded. Its a bit hard to adjust to brown, probably easier for blues. Clears I'm still in the middle, sometimes I press it right since I can feel when I don't need to press further, but in some gaming situations you mash that fucking key press down and get to the next one and mash the fuck out of that one anyway.

tl;dr for your quote, both are fantastic for gaming. Some prefer one, some prefer the other. Shooters = brown, other shit = probably blue.

The only thing stopping me from buying a mechanical keyboard is the fear that I'd turn into a complete wanker over it. They're like the hi-fi audio cables of the computing world.

I don't own any monster cables, I own one mechanical keyboard. I had 5-6 different logitech products pre-mechanical, now I have one, and it is not that piece of shit keyboard. You spend 100-120 on a g-keyboard, you spend 100-150 on a mechanical and actually get a better product. The weight, materials, everything is different. Mech. keyboards are heavy and built well usually.

@avelle, there are other blues out there besides the blackwidow... you just have to give up the macro keys and (most importantly) the media keys. I still miss my media keys, but I have a USB/DAC with a volume knob on my desk so its no big deal.

Get a keyboard with Blues. Honestly. I returned my brown because a key on the numpad didn't work, decided to exchange for a clear to see the difference and I like it better. While the browns are easy to press, they just feel strange when going from rubber dome to them, too much adjusting needed imo. You'll probably be happier with the blues. I am actually still interested in a blue since I know I'll like it after using clears. If you look around geekhack, some of those guys use multiple keyboards all hooked up at the same time depending on what they are doing. Overboard, but I can see why they do it after using them myself.

The problem with the blackwidow is that it is a razer product. It is not built as well. The keys do rub off, where the Das and Deck boards use special processes to put lettering on the keys. Razer is cheap about it. Keys stick on razers, the alt key isnt far enough from the spacebar so something they press together, etc. xarmor has a good blue board too, and as mentioned, there are others. The best part about a blackwidow is that it may be the easiest one to return as stores (bestbuy?) might carry them. Try it, and see if you want to keep it or give something else a try.

I have nothing against blues. I came close to buying one until I started to fear the blackwidow, and I went with browns for the gaming aspect... ended up with clears as an inbetween which is what the blues are more of as well. For what you do, I'd go with blues, as you are almost in my boat. Blues and clears just seem to be better all-around cherry's, where browns and blacks have a more direct purpose or advanced type of feel. My preference for what I do would be clears/blues > browns. If I was going to FPS more, like say when BF3 comes out, I'd probably want a Black/brown > blues. The response from the blue might be nicer for programming. Give it a shot cause I don't think you'll like the feel of browns when running lines of script, at least not until you are really used to the actuation point.

[Slott]

Im confused here because some talk about the blackwidow seems to be about the blackwidow itself while other parts of the conversation are aimed at the ultimate. Personally I own an ultimate, and therefore it has the backlight LEDs (A lot of talk was about the model with backlighting). The alt key and space bar key have more than adequate spacing between them. Since going from ffxi to wow, a lot of my keybindings that aren't straight up key presses all use the alt modifier, and I've never hit the space bar once with alt. On the ultimate, keys can't rub off, since the letter it represents is see-through to allow the LED to shine through, so i don't see that being an issue at all. None of my keys have any sort of wear on them at all either, and I use the keyboard constantly. Media keys are great, macro keys are great, the ability to rebind any key is fantastic, allowing you to do it per game as well. Is the keyboard built like a tank to survive a nuclear war? No, but unless you're lifting your keyboard up and smashing it against your desk I really don't see it being an issue. The blackwidow ultimate is weighted so it doesn't slide around, nothing on it feels flimsy, the keys allow for rapid tapping, the cord is braided so it doesn't snag on things. It's comfortable on the palm and the fingers. It's built from both a comfort and gaming aspect, not an endurance aspect. It's kind of like a shiny new car that gets above average MPG, has flashy features like an amazing sound system, but doesn't get the MPG of a hybrid or the 250000 miles of a 1980 honda civic.

My only personal problem with the blackwidow is that due to the macro keys, my left hand was a key over from where I thought it was, so until I readjusted, I was pressing a few wrong keys. After a few days, my typing speed and whatnot improved. The macro keys on the side do help, at least for me in WoW.

[avelle]

@avelle, there are other blues out there besides the blackwidow... you just have to give up the macro keys and (most importantly) the media keys. I still miss my media keys, but I have a USB/DAC with a volume knob on my desk so its no big deal.

Get a keyboard with Blues. Honestly. I returned my brown because a key on the numpad didn't work, decided to exchange for a clear to see the difference and I like it better. While the browns are easy to press, they just feel strange when going from rubber dome to them, too much adjusting needed imo. You'll probably be happier with the blues. I am actually still interested in a blue since I know I'll like it after using clears. If you look around geekhack, some of those guys use multiple keyboards all hooked up at the same time depending on what they are doing. Overboard, but I can see why they do it after using them myself.

The problem with the blackwidow is that it is a razer product. It is not built as well. The keys do rub off, where the Das and Deck boards use special processes to put lettering on the keys. Razer is cheap about it. Keys stick on razers, the alt key isnt far enough from the spacebar so something they press together, etc. xarmor has a good blue board too, and as mentioned, there are others. The best part about a blackwidow is that it may be the easiest one to return as stores (bestbuy?) might carry them. Try it, and see if you want to keep it or give something else a try.

I have nothing against blues. I came close to buying one until I started to fear the blackwidow, and I went with browns for the gaming aspect... ended up with clears as an inbetween which is what the blues are more of as well. For what you do, I'd go with blues, as you are almost in my boat. Blues and clears just seem to be better all-around cherry's, where browns and blacks have a more direct purpose or advanced type of feel. My preference for what I do would be clears/blues > browns. If I was going to FPS more, like say when BF3 comes out, I'd probably want a Black/brown > blues. The response from the blue might be nicer for programming. Give it a shot cause I don't think you'll like the feel of browns when running lines of script, at least not until you are really used to the actuation point.

Oh I definitely realize there are more Blues out there than just the Blackwidow and I don't even care about the macros/media keys to be honest. My eyes just keep glancing that way because it looks neat. I have been bitten several times by Razer's manufacturing defects. I had one of their gaming headsets when it first came out and was in love with it until one of the headphones blew out on me within 30 days of using it. I got a replacement from them and the same damn thing happened, so I returned it and got a refund. That's not to say it happened to everyone but damn. On the other hand, I've had three DeathAdder mice now(1 replacement for desktop and 1 for laptop) ever since it was first released and they have been pretty great.

I've been leaning in the direction of Cherry Blues so I will probably go that way. If I don't go Blackwidow, I'll probably go Das or Filco so I guess I need to read up on reviews of those on geekhack more closely and eventually just man up and pull the trigger on one.

[avelle]

Im confused here because some talk about the blackwidow seems to be about the blackwidow itself while other parts of the conversation are aimed at the ultimate. Personally I own an ultimate, and therefore it has the backlight LEDs (A lot of talk was about the model with backlighting). The alt key and space bar key have more than adequate spacing between them. Since going from ffxi to wow, a lot of my keybindings that aren't straight up key presses all use the alt modifier, and I've never hit the space bar once with alt. On the ultimate, keys can't rub off, since the letter it represents is see-through to allow the LED to shine through, so i don't see that being an issue at all. None of my keys have any sort of wear on them at all either, and I use the keyboard constantly. Media keys are great, macro keys are great, the ability to rebind any key is fantastic, allowing you to do it per game as well. Is the keyboard built like a tank to survive a nuclear war? No, but unless you're lifting your keyboard up and smashing it against your desk I really don't see it being an issue. The blackwidow ultimate is weighted so it doesn't slide around, nothing on it feels flimsy, the keys allow for rapid tapping, the cord is braided so it doesn't snag on things. It's comfortable on the palm and the fingers. It's built from both a comfort and gaming aspect, not an endurance aspect. It's kind of like a shiny new car that gets above average MPG, has flashy features like an amazing sound system, but doesn't get the MPG of a hybrid or the 250000 miles of a 1980 honda civic.

My only personal problem with the blackwidow is that due to the macro keys, my left hand was a key over from where I thought it was, so until I readjusted, I was pressing a few wrong keys. After a few days, my typing speed and whatnot improved. The macro keys on the side do help, at least for me in WoW.

When I mention Blackwidow I've always been talking about the Ultimate board, but it seems like I may have misread some reviews or posts on geekhack. What you've said about the Ultimate's keycaps seems encouraging. I am apprehensive though about them shifting the F keys. I understand why they did it, but it's probably going to irritate the shit out of me if I try it out.

[Boyiee]

Doesn't the blackwidow have like 2-3KRO? I prefer NKRO or at least higher than 2.

[Slott]

Have no idea what KRO is, so i can't answer...sorry

[avelle]

It's uhh, the amount of key presses that can be registered simultaneously I think.

[Boyiee]

I almost went with a blackwidow originally, but $130 is an outrageous price for that keyboard. For what you are getting in an upgrade from the normal to ultimate version I just can't justify that price.

On amazon sometime it goes on sale or is cheaper. Unless I had a giftcard, it was cheaper/sale, or some coupon for a % off - I just don't feel the keyboard is worth it. I do however would like a blue cherry board myself, but there are filco's. Das (love), and xarmor for people like me. When I go to japan I hope to come back with a cherry red board.

[Senji]

After all this I'm still a little lost on keyboards. I want something ~80$, durable, and great for gaming. Can some one list me a few options and recommendations? If the clicking noise people talk about is comparable to those old school IBM keyboards from like the late 80s, I don't know if I want. I can deal with some noise, but yeah...that noise was loud and annoying.

I almost went with a blackwidow originally, but $130 is an outrageous price for that keyboard. For what you are getting in an upgrade from the normal to ultimate version I just can't justify that price.

On amazon sometime it goes on sale or is cheaper. Unless I had a giftcard, it was cheaper/sale, or some coupon for a % off - I just don't feel the keyboard is worth it. I do however would like a blue cherry board myself, but there are filco's. Das (love), and xarmor for people like me. When I go to japan I hope to come back with a cherry red board.

Newegg had a fat stack of open box Cherry keyboards the other day.

Only 3 models left now, but something to keep an eye on.

[Boyiee]

link? which cherry?

I wish I could get a filco tenkeyless blue without importing and for less than 150 but they are a bitch to find. Kind of stuck with Das S and fuck I'd rather the godlike filco. If you want to spend some money take a look at topre.

edit: oh. cherry brand. you got me.

[Man0warr]

I've been using a SteelSeries 6Gv2 for a while and love it. Basically indestructible and typing is so smooth.

http://steelseries.com/us/products/k...eelseries-6gv2

[Tymon]

The Filco Majestouch with Blues isn't at all easy to find on Amazon or elsewhere at any time; I seem to be able to find their model with Browns much more frequently.

[Boyiee]

Yeah they are hard to get outside of importing for 160ish. The Das S is very very similar, however I want the tenkeyless and filco is built better.

[izembo]

again ill say good low price gaming keyboard is g110

[Boyiee]

Mostly talking about mechanicals here - so we are talking much higher build quality than the shit logitech puts out, and not cheaper products.

[izembo]

someone asked sub $80