America Hits the Debt Ceiling

[*Shinzon*]

I don't care - Even WITH those subsidies the oil companies are STILL dicking us over at every turn. So FUCK THEM, cut the damn subsidies and let them raise their prices to the consumer. I already know that will happen, and I don't give a shit because when it DOES happen maybe this country will start getting serious about automobile fuel efficiency, curbing emissions from cars, and using mass transportation.

Totally agree with everything you said here, except for the damn myth about us and Libya - we are NOT at war with them and we NEVER WERE.

Not that disagree with the thrust of your point, but you need to be careful lumping the automotive industry in with money grubbing oil. Most manufacturers are already bent over backwards developing new tech to both reduce emissions, reduce fuel consumption, and develop alternatives because they need to be able to keep selling cars in order to stay in business. European manufacturers, and American manufacturers selling cars in Europe have been using diesel engines for years that absolutely trash petrol counterparts. Problem? Americans don't want or buy enough diesel and because of varying state to state emission standards cant bring those engines over hear. Porsche, MB, BMW, Audi, all have cars that'll do 500+ miles on a tank of diesel before filling up. People want the gas cars instead of the diesel. Porsche has a car that'll do 700 miles on a single tank of diesel.

[archibaldcrane]

When computing productivity you're using output data, so in order to compute real wages you also need to use output data. However, if you use consumption data to deflate nominal wages to real wages (the CPI index), you're going to see real wages fall or flatten out relative to productivity, but if you use a GDP deflator you should see real wages follow productivity. So the way the video is misleading is that he is using the CPI index to compute real wages and then claiming that they are completely flat, but in reality he is just using the wrong price index.

Hmmm. So, using the CPI deflater would show that the average person can't buy more now with his wages than he could since the 70's, but using the GDP deflater it would show that a "share" representing the average person's output is larger now than the "share" of output they produced in the 70's was.

Do I have that correct?

Now, I'd believe that...the economy has been growing since the 70's faster than the population obviously - however, isn't the problem that the wealth generated by the nation is being accumulated nearly exclusively by the top 1%?

http://the-wawg-blog.org/wp-content/...s-bottom90.jpg

The problem isn't that we aren't growing, or that the "average" person isn't better off - it's that the "average" person includes data from the wildly wealthy, who have become even more wildly wealthy, while most of us (in this graph, the bottom 90%) aren't seeing the benefits from that rising economy.

[archibaldcrane]

Not that disagree with the thrust of your point, but you need to be careful lumping the automotive industry in with money grubbing oil. Most manufacturers are already bent over backwards developing new tech to both reduce emissions, reduce fuel consumption, and develop alternatives. Namely European manufacturers, and American manufacturers selling cars in europe have been using diesel engines for years that absolutely trash petrol counterparts. Problem? Americans don't want or buy enough diesel and because of varying state to state emission standards cant bring those engines over hear. Porsche, MB, BMW, Audi, all have cars that'll do 500+ miles on a tank of diesel before filling up. People want the gas cars instead of the diesel.

The point is, stretching your oil 25% further via diesel won't cut it in the long run. The future is in improved mass transit in more places and electric cars.

[*Shinzon*]

The point is, stretching your oil 25% further via diesel won't cut it in the long run. The future is in improved mass transit in more places and electric cars.

Except all that does is cut your reliance on foreign oil, the same can be achieved with Diesel now. Point is even the newest electric cars get 170miles on a charge take forever to charge and don't work for long distance trips. If you want fuel efficiency, you have that option but people don't want to consider it. Diesel can be made right here, and electric plants are exactly clean. Also until the US gets a more advanced state-to-state and city-to-city rail line people will still need cars to do a lot of their travel. It's silly to blame the auto industry for something that is out of their control.

[Kuya]

I don't really understand the desire to get off foreign oil.

[archibaldcrane]

Except all that does is cut your reliance on foreign oil, the same can be achieved with Diesel now. Point is even the newest electric cars get 170miles on a charge take forever to charge and don't work for long distance trips. If you want fuel efficiency, you have that option but people don't want to consider it. Diesel can be made right here, and electric plants are exactly clean. Also until the US gets a more advanced state-to-state and city-to-city rail line people will still need cars to do a lot of their travel. It's silly to blame the auto industry for something that is out of their control.

...that's why I said "the future". Electric cars 5-10 years from now are going to charge much faster and have much longer ranges than, ya know, the first mass-produced electric car sold in America ever.

Look, I like diesel, I negotiated my girlfriend's purchase of a TDI Jetta Sportwagen a few months ago - I'm just saying it only goes so far.

Also, implying the auto industry didn't have a major effect in destroying public transit in America, hell especially here in LA, is hilarious.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

How does anyone believe republicans are fiscally responsible? Seriously, egon? swamp? explain to me how the policy of the republican party isn't the exact reason we find ourselves in this mess?

I've never claimed they were fiscally responsible.

[*Shinzon*]

...that's why I said "the future". Electric cars 5-10 years from now are going to charge much faster and have much longer ranges than, ya know, the first mass-produced electric car sold in America ever.

Look, I like diesel, I negotiated my girlfriend's purchase of a TDI Jetta Sportwagen a few months ago - I'm just saying it only goes so far.

Cool, I'm glad I'm not arguing against then you. But I think diesel has a very high ceiling that people don't realize/consider when they jump all over the move to electricity. I'm not saying we'll never get to a point where they are better, but I am saying that unless we replace our conventional electric plants with something 100% more efficient the move is meaningless. Hell Nuclear power took a huge hit with the disaster in Japan, Germany is considering an immediate shutdown of all nuclear plants because of what happened, and I don't predict a move to get more plants here in the USA any better or rather easier. So even if the auto industry builds the cars, our plants are gonna limit us. Again I just don't like seeing the industry lumped in with big oil.

[archibaldcrane]

Even with dirty coal powering them, electric cars are still way cleaner and cheaper to fuel than diesel cars. (I'm not implying that modern diesel engines are dirty, far from it, but still.) That's the point, and the tech will be up to speed soon.

[Andalusian girls]

It's pretty fucking dense to think that the party that says tax increases are "off the table" is serious about anything.

Seriousness is relative and more the crucial adjective; if it comes to reducing the national debt by lowering spending or increasing the national debt by increasing taxes but increasing spending more the former option is clearly favorable though you are fundamentally correct, tax increases will be necessary to balance the budget, particularly to make entitlements viable. Social Security, for example, will not survive in its present form if the initial income taxed is not raised beyond its current threshold.

I don't really understand the desire to get off foreign oil.

It's a strategic weakness, political destabilization in those areas results in spiking prices and attempting to diffuse political destabilization in those areas results in war and propping up tyrannical regimes and earning the enmity of the local populace, not to mention some of the revenue goes towards funding Islamist organizations.

[Melena]

Even with dirty coal powering them, electric cars are still way cleaner and cheaper to fuel than diesel cars. (I'm not implying that modern diesel engines are dirty, far from it, but still.) That's the point, and the tech will be up to speed soon.

Maybe i'm just insane, but I always thought Hydrogen was going to be the future for automobile fuel. Easy to produce plus it's easier to convert current gas stations to hydrogen pumps then it would be for charging your car. I know Honda back in 2008 was doing a limited test lease of a Hydrogen car, but I passed on that since the closest hydrogen refueling area to me was about a 60 mile trip

[archibaldcrane]

Maybe i'm just insane, but I always thought Hydrogen was going to be the future for automobile fuel. Easy to produce plus it's easier to convert current gas stations to hydrogen pumps then it would be for charging your car. I know Honda back in 2008 was doing a limited test lease of a Hydrogen car, but I passed on that since the closest hydrogen refueling area to me was about a 60 mile trip

Ideally, every place with an outlet would be a "gas station" in the future. It will never be as snappy to charge as gasoline, but ideally for most people just plugging in when you get home would cover 99% of your transportation needs.

[*Shinzon*]

Maybe i'm just insane, but I always thought Hydrogen was going to be the future for automobile fuel. Easy to produce plus it's easier to convert current gas stations to hydrogen pumps then it would be for charging your car. I know Honda back in 2008 was doing a limited test lease of a Hydrogen car, but I passed on that since the closest hydrogen refueling area to me was about a 60 mile trip

There's a lot of work to be done on the infrastructure but Mercedes is sent 3 hydrogen powered B class around the world as a test of their durability and performance. It's a viable option but they're still working on it. But technically any place with an electrical outlet would be more convenient.

[Dimmauk]

Didnt someone make a water powered engine, then got disappeared and dead? Conspiracy?

[zoobernut]

Ideally, every place with an outlet would be a "gas station" in the future. It will never be as snappy to charge as gasoline, but ideally for most people just plugging in when you get home would cover 99% of your transportation needs.

One model I saw discussed recently had electric cars with easy quick to unplug/replace batteries (relatively) and you drove up to a "refueling station" and you just swapped out your battery for a new one and they have a bank of batteries in the back charging. I think if they could get the batteries smaller and more easy to plug/unplug from the vehicle this might work. Maybe you couldn't straight lift the battery out but maybe there will be lifts or service carts that do it quickly.

[*Shinzon*]

One model I saw discussed recently had electric cars with easy quick to unplug/replace batteries (relatively) and you drove up to a "refueling station" and you just swapped out your battery for a new one and they have a bank of batteries in the back charging. I think if they could get the batteries smaller and more easy to plug/unplug from the vehicle this might work. Maybe you couldn't straight lift the battery out but maybe there will be lifts or service carts that do it quickly.

I know what you're talking about actually. There are places where basically the car drives into what looks like an automated car wash. Halfway through the conveyor the bottom of the floor opens up and robots slide the battery packs out of the bottom of the car and slide the new one back into place. It's not a bad idea in theory but there are so many different battery types being used atm.

[tyven]

I for one would no longer like to spend 75 dollars filling my gas tank. shit sux

[aurik]

The real way to break dependence on foreign oil is to reorganize so that we aren't commuting an hour+ a day by car to get to work. LA is fucking stupid that way. Its a gigantic waste of energy having to ferry around thousands of pounds every day to go about our normal business.

[Cadsuane]

The real way to break dependence on foreign oil is to reorganize so that we aren't commuting an hour+ a day by car to get to work. LA is fucking stupid that way. Its a gigantic waste of energy having to ferry around thousands of pounds every day to go about our normal business.

Yeah, modern urban design has become an oxymoron.

[*Shinzon*]

Man I love to drive, as long as it's not all city/traffic driving 1hr doesn't bother me. Have a buddy whose wife has to drive 2hrs though, and that would be a bit boring in traffic. On the other hand I absolutely hate Public Transportation in NYC though. So slow and inconsistent. Not to mention people annoy me.