American Basic driver education and beyond (Poll)/Discussion

[*Shinzon*]

Ok so since this came up in the debt thread and I've seen it mentioned in a couple of different places I've gotten curious. We have a ton of drivers on these boards, and some who even ride motorcycles/drive high performance cars and I'm just curious what level or real driver education most people actually get.

To start, my position is this country does a shitty job of governing driver education and helping drivers to truly become prepared for driving. The average person will take a state certified driver education program whether it be through, say their high school or college, or a for profit "school" get a DMV road test waiver or take the DMV road test and be granted their license. These course are nothing more than introductory. They do nothing more than teach a person how a car basically works and what they need to do on a very basic level to use it. It is one of the reasons that there are so many crashes on the road and so many young unprepared drivers dying or injuring others.

In different European countries, Germany off the top of my head, require drivers to do mandatory car control courses, with skid pads and the like that teach drivers how to react and how to control their vehicle when they lose control on wet tarmac or when they drive their car close to the limits of traction. Not one state in the USA requires this kind driver education. There are also no requirements for cold weather states to force drivers to take car control courses in snowy/icey conditions.

I personally have never taken a car control course or high performance driver course but I absolutely intend to. Basically I want to how many people actually believe they are competent, comfortable, safe drivers and why? Along with what kind of driver education you received.

Here are some videos to provoke a little discussion:

[Rooney]

I took a basic driver's ed course in high school to get a waiver for the actual license. The class was terrible and basically covered nothing beyond what common sense would tell you. (use turn signals, follow the speed limit, etc.) Probably about 90% of my time in the car during the course was spent in the backseat because I got paired with two girls who were absolutely terrified of driving. They wouldn't drive on the interstate, go the speed limit, etc. All in all, it really was a waste of time.

The motorcycle course I took was the complete opposite. They emphasized safety above all else. We covered emergency stops, swerving, driving over obstacles, different road conditions, etc. We actually practiced skills you use on the road. The course instructor even told one woman that she would have to retake the course because she couldn't get the hang of the clutch and would be too dangerous on the road with other drivers.

If you want safe drivers, you need to send them to advanced courses imo. Basic driver's ed is complete crap.

[Gadritan]

I was in one of the last group's here that required absolutely nothing aside from being 16yrs old and passing your driving test/exam at the DMV to get a full license.

I've often been complemented on my driving and I'm always the default driver for any trips with friends and family. Not by my own doing, they just feel more comfortable with me than some of the other goobers I suppose.

That being said, I should point out that I also received 27 speeding tickets by the age of 23 (5yrs without out one now *knocks on wood*). I had my license suspended on 3 separate occasions for it. Never caused a wreck or came close to it. I drove fast, but controlled. Hell, said friends and family still trust me 100% even knowing this.

I'm extremely comfortable and confident behind the wheel. I owe it to a driving school of sorts. Pizza delivery. I'm so not kidding. I worked at 3 different pizza places delivering from the time I was 16-19. That experience was golden. It's a common theme I see amongst my friends as well. The only people I trust to drive (and I'm hardcore picky since I'm usually the one doing it) all delivered pizzas when they were teenagers. It's sort of a trial by fire. It's part of why I feel that although driving courses may help a bit as far as a jump start, there is absolutely no replacement for real world experience. That 1 week of class you had driving Crown-Vics on a skid pad isn't going to do much for you 10yrs later when your Prelude fish tails.

[*Shinzon*]

Yeah, there was a reason I added the Motorcycle Safety Foundation course. I took the MSF course when learning to ride and there was a significantly different emphasis place on safety and proper use and education of the controls of the vehicle. After taking that course I found myself much more aware of what I was doing on the road and generally more focused on what I was doing. Even though it's different a lot of the things you learn in the MSF directly translate into driving. Also it just seems the same where ever you go. Anyone who takes basic driver's ed learns jack shit. It's one of the reasons we have such insane safety regulations in this country. It's kinda silly really. Most people never learn what the limit of traction is and how to deal with it.

[Moss]

I took a driver's ed school at my high school to save money on car insurance. The classroom stuff was pretty common sense, although not everyone has common sense so it probably helped some of the other kids. Also had to complete 6 hours in the car with the instructor, which was fucking miserable since the guy was the biggest fucking asshole I have ever met(fuck that guy).

After I had my license a year or so my mom signed me up for an "extreme" driving school at the Atlanta motor speedway. It isn't actually on the speedway, just the gigantic parking lot, but they would use these huge trucks to spray soapy water on the pavement so we could practice regaining control after hydroplaning. Also worked on getting up to high speed and making quick braking decisions and other stuff like that. At the end they set up this course with all kinds of weaving and turns that you would go through as fast as possible. Shit was really fun and it gave me a feel for my car's limits.

I consider myself a good driver because I pay close attention to anyone around me that could do something stupid. I haven't been in any accidents but I have had a few close calls. I really think it is luck for the most part because there isn't always much you can do.

[*Shinzon*]

I took a driver's ed school at my high school to save money on car insurance. The classroom stuff was pretty common sense, although not everyone has common sense so it probably helped some of the other kids. Also had to complete 6 hours in the car with the instructor, which was fucking miserable since the guy was the biggest fucking asshole I have ever met(fuck that guy).

After I had my license a year or so my mom signed me up for an "extreme" driving school at the Atlanta motor speedway. It isn't actually on the speedway, just the gigantic parking lot, but they would use these huge trucks to spray soapy water on the pavement so we could practice regaining control after hydroplaning. Also worked on getting up to high speed and making quick braking decisions and other stuff like that. At the end they set up this course with all kinds of weaving and turns that you would go through as fast as possible. Shit was really fun and it gave me a feel for my car's limits.

I consider myself a good driver because I pay close attention to anyone around me that could do something stupid. I haven't been in any accidents but I have had a few close calls. I really think it is luck for the most part because there isn't always much you can do.

But see in your case, you actually know what the limit of grip and traction feels like which is great. Should it ever happen to you, you're now in a position of power where as most people will cause gigantic accidents if it happened to them. I don't even see why states don't force these advanced course. I read somewhere that new york spends upwards of 1.2b a year in order to deal with/clean up accidents on roads, where 90% are driver failure.

Edit: Found it! Boy was I wrong lol.

Every year, the United States loses in the neighborhood of 30,000 people to traffic accidents. That's like the entire population of a medium-sized town being wiped out annually. The number of deaths not only wreaks havoc with families, but it puts a strain on our economy.

In recognition of the rising costs of traffic fatalities – not just in the U.S., but globally – the United Nations General Assembly has declared 2011-2020 the Decade of Action for Road Safety. The ten-year span will be marked by increased consciousness of driving habits, road conditions and vehicle safety. In honor of the event, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention has put together some alarming statistics.

In 2005, traffic deaths wound up costing just over $41 billion in medical bills and work lost. Yes, that's billion with a "B." According to the CDC, 10 states stood head and shoulders above the rest in monetary losses. Those were: California, at $4.16 billion, Texas, at $3.50 billion, Florida, at 3.16 billion, Georgia, at $1.55 billion, Pennsylvania, at $1.52 billion, North Carolina, at $1.50 billion, New York, at $1.33 billion, Illinois, at $1.32 billion, Ohio, at $1.23 billion and Tennessee, at $1.15 billion.

Though these 10 states handily outranked the others, the CDC tallied up the monetary total for all of the 50 states. To see how your home state fared, check out the CDC website. If the U.S. can rack up such an alarming total by itself, we shudder to think what the global costs of car wrecks is.

[Plow]

I haven't had much formal training, but I've had a whoooole lot of hands on experience since I was about 13. Beyond simply being with people that knew cars and where to go to practice driving them fast, I've spent tons of time practicing on insanely bad roads in just about every imaginable condition, with my dad and grandpa a lot as well as alone, and of course all the shit involved in driving around on farms.

I also was in a "Jeep club" where we went out to a really awesome offroad park most weekends and learned a lot from doing all that.

[RKenshin]

I agree, in that there are way too many bad drivers. We not only breed them, but we accept it and largely allow it to continue.

I've seen a cop choose to pull over the guy going 10mph over the speed limit over a person driving 10mph under the speed limit and half-way into the breakdown lane. What's really more dangerous here?

[Cream Soda]

I picked other cause I had high school level driver's education, got a waiver for passing the class, so I didn't even have to take the driver's test to get my license.

[ZarakiKujata]

I picked other cause I had high school level driver's education, got a waiver for passing the class, so I didn't even have to take the driver's test to get my license.

You need a license to bike 32 miles up hill both ways in the pouring rain every day?

edit: I did a program through my HS, but we had a semi-difficult exam for passing it (harder than the actual state written exam), practice driving w/ the instructor was one on one and covered a variety of driving conditions (I did mine during the winter so I had quite a bit of snow/ice practice b/c thats what my instructor emphasized, other instructors w/ the program actually stalled their kids cars or would get em to fishtail on ice and have em figure out what to do lol). They also had your parents sign a thing that they drove w/ you for an additional X amount of time beyond the 10hrs of instruction the program had. I definitely think most drivers are woefully underprepared though (I was the only one in my group of friends who didnt get into an accident in HS.)

[Cream Soda]

I had a car once upon a time. Sat in my back yard for a year, cause I never registered it. Then my uncle's car broke down and he put his tags on it, then his wife crashed it, end of car.

[Zeb]

No CDL class option? for shame.

Some CDL classes are absolutely horrid, but the one I took was the most educational driving class I've had. It even outdid the first tier MSF class. Has anyone taken the 2nd tier MSF class?

[archibaldcrane]

My favorite part of driving a car is shooting my assault rifle from it.

[*Shinzon*]

No CDL class option? for shame.

Some CDL classes are absolutely horrid, but the one I took was the most educational driving class I've had. It even outdid the first tier MSF class. Has anyone taken the 2nd tier MSF class?

Actually I haven't gotten around it to because the second teir classes require you bring you're own bike and I haven't bought one yet. Its been a year for me since I've been on a bike since I got my license through the MSF and I feel that I might be so rusty I'd need that second course before I feel good about taking it out on the street -_-

[Zeb]

My favorite part of driving a car is shooting my assault rifle from it.

On a related note, I've been replaying GTA Vice City and San Andreas. After playing those and then driving IRL behind some slow people makes me really wish I had a smg to shoot cars. =/

[aduidarnenye]

My father taught me how to drive. I was also one of the last people to get a driver's license with just passing a test. I had my beginner's at 16 but let it run out until I was 23, when I got it again and did the test. Because I had had my beginner's at 16, however, I didn't need to go on any course or be a part of the graduated licensing programme. I've never had a car accident or a ticket in the 12 years I've had my license.

[Moss]

lol, I remember I barely passed the actual driving exam for my license because I couldn't parallel park between these tiny ass cones that were basically impossible to see in my SUV. the driving exam really is a huge joke.

[Miragemaiden]

Local novice schools for autocrossing are great resources for more driving and auto-handling education--instructors will sit with you through each course. And yes, you can race your own car. Highly recommend.

[Arrmani]

I had a basic Driver's Ed course in HS which was pretty lame like everyone else said. Then I had an extra Driving & Driving Simulation class. I had already passed the test for my license at this point, but the Driving class got me used to switching cars instead of just jumping in and going.

I feel I'm a good driver though. I've had 2 minor collisions, one was when I first started driving at a job using a delivery van, and the other was on an incline when the road was covered in snow. There was no damage in either case as far as I could tell. I've been pulled over 3 times, and only issued 1 warning and no citations.

I do agree that jobs where you drive around make you a better driver. I've had two jobs delivering things in vans, and I've gotten better at knowing how my vehicle will react and the extent of the frame in being close to stuff. Also agree about how awesome MSF is, but I never took the second course (my bike is a bit longer than usual, so I'm not sure how I'd do on tight spaces).

If I was close to any, I would take more advance classes just to be able to practice on inferior driving conditions.

[*Shinzon*]

Local novice schools for autocrossing are great resources for more driving and auto-handling education--instructors will sit with you through each course. And yes, you can race your own car. Highly recommend.

You know that would of been a good option to add to, but I guess it could count as high performance driving.

I'm genuinely shocked at how many people here just went with the basic drivers ed though. Kinda confirms what most people think about the system, that is that it doesn't go far enough. Well most people will be happy being driven by google's driverless cars in the future, but you'll have to pry my hands off the wheel, fuck that noise.