Random Question Thread XXI: You're Not My Random Question Thread Dad

[Innuendo]

Consensus is that Vereth is much better for damage. Spharai has the counter+ on it which is better for defense, but that's about it.

Damnit beaten ; ;

[Sylvrdragon]

Yeah, I was there for an hour this morning and didn't manage to break the horn once (using vorpal blade and sickle slash mainly for the crits). That plus the fact that we haven't had the AC for almost a week now makes it a pain in the ass to try and farm there :/ Thanks though, I appreciate the input.

edit: farming in Beaucedine_S atm. 2/2 on horn breaks, haven't learned it yet though. Still, progress!

You don't really need to bother learning F.Rip anymore. It's long since been outclassed by newer spells.

[Ksandra]

As far as NPC MP, I've never found any way to tell what it is beyond the vague clues that they give. If I was a betting man, I'd bet that they give the first MP message when they're ~<25% remaining. I'm pretty sure your NPC's stats are capped to your level, but I'm not sure they did a perfect job of it (like for level correction).

gay, ty for the info

[Mercilessturtle]

Still possible to learn blue magic from campaign mobs as long as there's no battle going on? Trying to learn Frenetic Rip, and supposedly it's easier to break the horns with Fiendish Leechkeepers. On that note, what's a good place to farm them solo (where I won't get my shit pushed in by surrounding mobs at 75(lolgimp))?

Abyssea.

[Nightfyre]

Imps in Abyssea use Frenetic? Seems odd given that Qutrub can't use Spinal Cleave, Wamouracampa can't use Cannonball, etc. Honestly haven't paid attention though, rarely kill them inside Abyssea.

[Byrthnoth]

Alright, thanks. I suppose more specifically I am asking about Spharai vs. Verethragna. I suspect Victory Smite massively outshines Final Heaven, but I am having trouble finding info on Final Heaven. Is there a clear winner in hand-to-hand, both inside and outside abyssea?

Inside Abyssea, Vereth is better. Outside Abyssea, Vereth is still better unless you want the Counter from Spharai.

* Final Heaven is ~5.4 fTP (including 15% DA, offhand, and 25% relic bonus), 60% VIT mod, and it can't crit
* Victory Smite is 5.55 fTP (including 15% DA), 60% STR mod, and it can crit
VIT is a shittier mod than STR. 5.4 is less than 5.55, and not being able to crit is worse than being able to crit. So Victory Smite is (a lot) better than Final Heaven even at 90. Final Heaven may finally be competitive with Asuran Fists though? Maybe? If so, you can consider the 10 Subtle Blow aftermath too.
* Asuran Fists is 8 fTP, 10% STR, 10% VIT, and can't crit.

DPS wise, Spharai may win. ~10%? Triples damage (both hands?) and 27~28 Attack > 30% ODD on one hand.
Base damage of 46, delay of 280, fSTR assumed capped
(46+44+13)/(280+86) = 16.89 DPS (x2, kicks, etc, but it's the same between both so we can just use this.)
(46+35+12)/(280+51) = 16.85 (with an extra 15 STR)

Whether Verth has Spharai-crushing DPS is going to depend on your STR without a weapon and the monster's VIT. If you're fully benefiting from its 15 STR (4 base damage), then it dominates. Monk fSTR caps low though. At 75, it wasn't unreasonable for Monks to be capped. I'm not sure exactly how Monks gear at 90, but it looks like they're at least capable of capping fSTR without the weapon slot: +46 STR (AF3+2, Black Belt, Thew, and Rajas) and +13 from merits and food. You'd be fSTR capped with Vereth until the monster's VIT exceeded your STR by 11. Either way, you probably aren't going to get the full 4 base damage from Vereth very often.

Outside Abyssea, it's a question of whether Spharai's defensive advantages (and counter bonus) outweigh Vereth's assumed WS advantage. I personally feel DPS is likely a wash between the two.

[Atoreis]

Inside Abyssea, Vereth is better. Outside Abyssea, Vereth is still better unless you want the Counter from Spharai.

* Final Heaven is ~5.4 fTP (including 15% DA, offhand, and 25% relic bonus), 60% VIT mod, and it can't crit
* Victory Smite is 5.55 fTP (including 15% DA), 60% STR mod, and it can crit
VIT is a shittier mod than STR. 5.4 is less than 5.55, and not being able to crit is worse than being able to crit. So Victory Smite is (a lot) better than Final Heaven even at 90. Final Heaven may finally be competitive with Asuran Fists though? Maybe? If so, you can consider the 10 Subtle Blow aftermath too.
* Asuran Fists is 8 fTP, 10% STR, 10% VIT, and can't crit.

DPS wise, Spharai may win. ~10%? Triples damage (both hands?) and 27~28 Attack > 30% ODD on one hand.
Base damage of 46, delay of 280, fSTR assumed capped
(46+44+13)/(280+86) = 16.89 DPS (x2, kicks, etc, but it's the same between both so we can just use this.)
(46+35+12)/(280+51) = 16.85 (with an extra 15 STR)

Whether Verth has Spharai-crushing DPS is going to depend on your STR without a weapon and the monster's VIT. If you're fully benefiting from its 15 STR (4 base damage), then it dominates. Monk fSTR caps low though. At 75, it wasn't unreasonable for Monks to be capped. I'm not sure exactly how Monks gear at 90, but it looks like they're at least capable of capping fSTR without the weapon slot: +46 STR (AF3+2, Black Belt, Thew, and Rajas) and +13 from merits and food. You'd be fSTR capped with Vereth until the monster's VIT exceeded your STR by 11. Either way, you probably aren't going to get the full 4 base damage from Vereth very often.

Outside Abyssea, it's a question of whether Spharai's defensive advantages (and counter bonus) outweigh Vereth's assumed WS advantage. I personally feel DPS is likely a wash between the two.

Except you can have the same counter with Veret using right gear and loosing some damage if really needing a counter to survive and you cant use Vsmite with Spharai w/e equip you gonna wear.

Spharai for now has only 3 uses:
1. One of the ultimate achievements for career MNK
2. Having counter cap in evasion equip
3. Epeen white damage

[Byrthnoth]

Except you can have the same counter with Veret using right gear and loosing some damage if really needing a counter to survive and you cant use Vsmite with Spharai w/e equip you gonna wear.

Spharai for now has only 3 uses:
1. One of the ultimate achievements for career MNK
2. Having counter cap in evasion equip
3. Epeen white damage

If you need the counter, (outside Abyssea) wearing Spharai is probably going to result in better damage than wearing Verth replacing your gear with Counter options. How close can Vereth Monk get to the Counter cap, and how much do they sacrifice to get there?

Apart from that, we mostly agree.

[sedna]

Is it worth going 5-hit with Masamune if it means reducing haste to 22%, and if not, is a 6-hit setup acceptable as long as I'm maintaining capped haste? Also, am I missing STP pieces that would allow me to hit 5-hit without dropping capped haste? This is the setup I've come up with so far, but I'm not sure if I've missed some vital pieces or perhaps some swaps that would ultimately be more efficient:

SAM with capped haste, but only 6-hit

[Yugl]

Imps in Abyssea use Frenetic? Seems odd given that Qutrub can't use Spinal Cleave, Wamouracampa can't use Cannonball, etc. Honestly haven't paid attention though, rarely kill them inside Abyssea.

Pretty sure I've seen a wamoura do cannonball.

[Deader2818]

I think having to change legs to af1+1 alone makes using counter gear with vere pointless.

[Xera]

Is it worth going 5-hit with Masamune if it means reducing haste to 22%, and if not, is a 6-hit setup acceptable as long as I'm maintaining capped haste? Also, am I missing STP pieces that would allow me to hit 5-hit without dropping capped haste? This is the setup I've come up with so far, but I'm not sure if I've missed some vital pieces or perhaps some swaps that would ultimately be more efficient:

SAM with capped haste, but only 6-hit

SAM can't use Blitz ring.

[sedna]

SAM can't use Blitz ring.

Well, I'm retarded. Suggestions on capping haste? Or would it be better to go for 5hit?

[Chun Liroy]

Pretty sure I've seen a wamoura do cannonball.

The ones in attohwa don't change stances, same with the qutrub.

[Sylvrdragon]

Well, I'm retarded. Suggestions on capping haste? Or would it be better to go for 5hit?

Zelus + +2 Legs would put you at capped Haste with 1 less STP without Blitz. You could then replace Blitz with Hoard Ring for a net gain of 3 STP. I don't know where the threshold is, but Chiv Chain could add one more STP for +4 from the set you have built.

After that, you would have to give up your Aethling for more STP unless I'm missing something.

[sedna]

Zelus + +2 Legs would put you at capped Haste with 1 less STP without Blitz. You could then replace Blitz with Hoard Ring for a net gain of 3 STP. I don't know where the threshold is, but Chiv Chain could add one more STP for +4 from the set you have built.

I was thinking of using the Unkai neck, I believe that has 3 STP... hmmm... ffxi calc shows that with your suggestion as 5 hit with capped haste... that works! I knew the pieces, I just wasn't putting them together. So would the revised setup of This be acceptable? I think SAM can wear all that gear lol XD

[Phoenyx]

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/99564 5-hit with 26% Haste. No idea if it's even close to ideal or if it would be out-performed by a reduced-haste 5-hit.

[TheDirtyHobo]

Chiv Chain

No.

[Atoreis]

If you need the counter, (outside Abyssea) wearing Spharai is probably going to result in better damage than wearing Verth replacing your gear with Counter options. How close can Vereth Monk get to the Counter cap, and how much do they sacrifice to get there?

Apart from that, we mostly agree.

Veret MNK can achieve counter cap too. You are right in Spharai better damage but it only means that in those 1-5% situation where you really need a counter cap for survive you gonna kill it slightly faster then with Veret which is pretty irrelevant at this point unless you are limited on time also. So you can't really say you have much better survivability with Spharai in those 1-5% fights that require counter cap. You can only say you have slightly better kill speed in those 1-5% fights that require counter cap. You can only say Spharai is better for survivability on fight that requires both being at counter cap and evasion/accuracy at the same time but that is like .x% of the time.

[Sylvrdragon]

No.

lol. Obviously I'm not a SAM.