Random Question Thread XXI: You're Not My Random Question Thread Dad

[TheDirtyHobo]

SCH, RDM, SMN are to an extent BRD all 'useless' now.

I've never understood the "BRD is useless now" mentality. Sure, they aren't as strictly necessary in extreme lowman situations, but they offer things that no other job can offer, i.e. 25% haste to melees that can't be obtained through other source and 50% slow that stacks with the slow spell. As soon as you hit 2 DDs, it's probably better to squeeze a BRD in than a 3rd melee.

[dasva]

Basically because the mentality is if you aren't a good proc job or TH job (oh wait but not rng) you are useless and people only proc blue during blunt apparently.

[rdd]

unless you are SCH or RDM in which case you are mostly useless in any real capacity.

[Shiyo]

Any job can DD, mobs/nms are extremely weak and easy to kill. The only thing you need is procs, bringing a job that can't proc is fine if you have other members covering all procs, but if you can't proc the job is pretty much useless since proc jobs can do the exact same things you can while also bringing tons of procs.

unless you are SCH or RDM in which case you are mostly useless in any real capacity.

Yeah, pretty much. Can barely proc anything, can't heal for crap, debuffs don't matter, refresh doesn't matter, mp management doesn't matter, cc doesn't matter. I play RDM only and I'm RDM main, the only thing I do is basically cap azure and run around soloing mobs for te's :/

[dasva]

Idk I'd like to see a non pld "hundred shield" nms

[Churchill]

I'd like to see a DRG use Ukko's Fury as well.

Pretty much the same argument.

[dasva]

Sure it is but non stop ws is a bit more game altering than just a really strong ws and some ODD

[TheDirtyHobo]

Which is why you play WAR and non stop WS with a really strong WS and some ODD.

[Alkimi]

I always take a RNG for voidwatch NMs. You can never cover all the many weaknesses they seem to have but having Marksmanship and Archery covered in one job is worth using a spot in the alliance for. I also take a DRG since wyvern abilities seems to be a common weakness.

As long as they watch their hate RNG can contribute a decent amount of damage. The T4s are a bit anti-melee, they all wipe shadows and hit ridiculously hard.

[Mojo]

Armageddon isn't any more useful than Gandiva. Low enmity weapon skills are somewhat moot these days considering it only takes around ~8000 damage to completely cap both types of hate, and you'll be well along the way at even just 1/3 of that. If you're even doing damage worth giving the mob TP for, you will hit this cap with regular ranged attacks. You will hit it faster with Gandiva, but you will still hit this with both weapons and either die or stop doing damage. It's not like you can't just get back up and resume damaging the mob anyways, and Armageddon's range is going to make that much more impractical. There are even some mobs where it's useful to have a Ranger tank anyways.

As far as the ideal tank goes, it depends on the situation. What buffs you have, what the mob can do to you and other such things are going to affect the outcome greatly. Generalizations don't work. Statements like Ninja isn't a tank and Bard is useless just come across as boldly senseless and callow.

[Eldelphia]

Anyone know what Joachim is wearing? Eyepatch, marduk legs, feet ??? hands ??? body ???. Wonder if its possible to look like that anyway, the jobs seem mixed lol.

I do this... the NPC in Nashmau for Einherjar bugs the crap out of me because I don't recognise her shoes

Hmm he could be wearing an Ebur Talar. I'd guess he was a BRD. The feet he wears may be from that set too. Or are just coloured versions of the Mederi Attire Set. It's definitely a Talar.

[Shiyo]

I don't see how ninja would tank outside compared to say, a real DD job, or how brd is useful in abyssea though...
On anything hard ninja simply doesn't have the tools to grab hate like a paladin does, even if it has 9 shadows compared to everyone else's 6 and high evas/parry. If they didn't nerf /drk, and NIN could tank on hard things with nin/drk like paladin does pld/nin with cures/flash/sentinel/etc NIN could be a viable tank equal to paladin.
Ninja would be best off trying to be a DD with innin fulltime IMO. What exactly does the "enhances innin effect" on af3 helm do?

[Mojo]

I don't see how ninja would tank outside compared to say, a real DD job, or how brd is useful in abyssea though...
On anything hard ninja simply doesn't have the tools to grab hate like a paladin does, even if it has 9 shadows compared to everyone else's 6 and high evas/parry. If they didn't nerf /drk, and NIN could tank on hard things with nin/drk like paladin does pld/nin with cures/flash/sentinel/etc NIN could be a viable tank equal to paladin.
Ninja would be best off trying to be a DD with innin fulltime IMO. What exactly does the "enhances innin effect" on af3 helm do?

There is so much wrong in here I don't even know where to start, but I'll try.

To begin with, if you're referencing hate tools, you might as well just call it quits in regards to Paladin. There is nothing remarkable about this job in terms of hate generation (the enmity system in this game is outdated and inadequate.) Physical damage generates/has always generated far more hate than any other 'tool' any class has access to and it gets trumped by any other class. You also seem to be forgetting the fact that any job can set Paladin to their subjob and get every remarkable hate tool the class has access to.

I honestly don't know why anybody is bringing up Dark Knight subjob. It's completely outclassed by Warrior (Berserk, Double Attack, and Provoke.) Even before the nerf Warrior was still better unless you couldn't melee the mob for hate (only a select few mobs.)

In terms of damage potential, I'd be interested in hearing your definition of what a real DD is. The only times my Ninja is noticeably outpaced by my other melee jobs is in situations where I have a massive amount of buffs. This isn't exactly common and I wouldn't use it as a baseline by any means.

Lastly, in regards to Bard. Much of what is defined as being 'useless' these days is done so because it is deemed suboptimal. By suboptimal, I mean something like that Samurai is useless in Abyssea because that, for various reasons, everything takes longer with a Samurai tank. But everything can still be done so with one. Now consider that every 5 minute fight is going to be turned into a 3 minute fight with a Bard around and think about how defining Bard as useless doesn't really make any fucking sense anymore.

[Mojo]

The Innin enhancement is a Double Attack +2?% enhancement, or something like that. I didn't test it though, I think that's what was reported.

[Xantavia]

Does jelly ring give you amorph affinity? I was fighting a pug and got intimidated by it, but can't think of any other gear that would do this to me. Wearing a strange mix of stuff for skilling up (or maybe just incredibly gimp). 90RNG/DNC

Francisca / Tungi / Selene's bow / iron arrows
pink hat / veisa collar / brutal / suppa
k. osode / pink hands / rajas / jelly ring
frugal cape / swift / pink legs / areions gamashes

[Churchill]

Well not I don't agree with either of you, but for the sake of clarity I don't think Shiyo has ever tanked as a NIN/DRK, seen a NIN/DRK tank, and if either of those statements is false he/she/they sucked terribly at it.

I also don't agree with a blanket WAR sub being better except for a few mobs, there have been plenty of HNM's where crap damage -> shitty AoE and/or TP resets/hate resets etc made NIN/DRK an good lowman tank because it could generate hate across both spectrums, spike hate when necessary, and enable jobs that have an easier time managing their damage output (BLM, SMN) to do their jobs. It took longer to do anything, but if you had a good tank and good support a NIN, RDM, BRD, and BLM/SMN were all you really needed to accomplish something...it just took a longer amount of time. It was also easy to hold mobs until more members arrived.

Is this any different than PLD? Not at all, but it was just something for a NIN to do during events sympathetic to PLDs

I'd point to what I said before in that there's no reason to use one in a situation where a PLD is more easily manageable. It's still fun though, and that was all it and RDM/NIN really were in the first place.

[Alkimi]

Does jelly ring give you amorph affinity? I was fighting a pug and got intimidated by it, but can't think of any other gear that would do this to me. Wearing a strange mix of stuff for skilling up (or maybe just incredibly gimp). 90RNG/DNC

Francisca / Tungi / Selene's bow / iron arrows
pink hat / veisa collar / brutal / suppa
k. osode / pink hands / rajas / jelly ring
frugal cape / swift / pink legs / areions gamashes

Veisa Collar has Amorph Affinity

[Alkimi]

Ugh, doubled posted

[Xantavia]

thanks for the quick answer

[Apelila]

I've never understood the "BRD is useless now" mentality. Sure, they aren't as strictly necessary in extreme lowman situations, but they offer things that no other job can offer, i.e. 25% haste to melees that can't be obtained through other source and 50% slow that stacks with the slow spell. As soon as you hit 2 DDs, it's probably better to squeeze a BRD in than a 3rd melee.

Since no one has address it directly: Edit bah, someone did while i was posting. Teaches me not to try and come off completely condescending.

Shit is situational. If I'm going with LS and we need proc's, bitch ain't coming bard if they can come blm. If don't need procs, they're still coming blm because they can go off and solo TE's or scout next mob. If they're being lazy and had brd geared up, they come sing us a song. But making melee more powerful isn't a priority in abyssea as it was everywhere else, stuffs easy enough as it is.

In a pick up: mostly useless. If one comes along I wouldn't turn it down, but a good brd supporting 3 retards = 3 retards with good songs. If the choice is between a DD I know is excellent or a BRD thats might not be a idiot the DD is going to win.