Random Question Thread XXI: You're Not My Random Question Thread Dad

[Obsidian]

How bad does the lack of crit rate outside kill NIN's white damage? Considering the likelihood of having a bard around for staggers, marches and ballads, I have difficulty seeing it stay in the top three outside Abyssea.

[Shiyo]

I don't understand the insults at me when you agreed with me? NIN/DRK tanked things you couldn't melee, and could tank as well as a PLD/NIN, that's exactly what we both said. They nerfed /drk and now it's not viable, I'm also not sure how you tanked ANYTHING nin/war before, nin/war was for merits/einherjar/dynamis/limbus, aka weak mobs. It never worked on sky gods, sea NMs, or omega/ultima.
NIN literally never tanked @ 75 unless it was NIN/DRK after 2008/7 or whenever the 2h buff + paladin buffs happened/when pld/nin became more mainstream.

Exactly what comments about nin/drk made me look horrible? You used stun, bind, sleep, kurayami, hojo, jubaku for normal hate, then spike hate vs enmity resets or DD's going all out with souleater/last resort. It worked amazingly well and was fun to play.

When you talk about NIN dd, are you referring to Abyssea? NIN DD is amazing in abyssea, are you sure you do equal damage to mnks wars sam's drk's etc outside? I don't really think you do, if you do show me please. The only NIN's I've seen have been horrible and I haven't played mine outside much, but average 1k jins on ep mobs is pretty retarded tbh when victory smite is going to be doing 3k+.

edit: also about the hate cap stuff..you don't have melee's going all out doing 8k damage on the harder VWNM's and use a paladin to tank, so they actually do tank stuff like that. The enmity/hate stuff in this game only works properly when fighting hard mobs like IT+++++ crabs in 2003 <_> That also makes me wonder about NIN/pld..as weird as that sounds.

[Churchill]

For old times sake, avg 2k jins

My argument was that NIN/DRK is still as viable now as it was before and because of the changes to support jobs it's actually probably even better and easier to manage. I'm also arguing that the only reason you ever did it was for fun (or lack of a PLD online to hold) so there's really no reason to do it when a PLD has an easier time of doing the same job and there really never was aside from Tiamat.

[Shiyo]

How do you average 2k jins? What do you WS in outside?

[Shiyo]

Since no one has address it directly: Edit bah, someone did while i was posting. Teaches me not to try and come off completely condescending.

Shit is situational. If I'm going with LS and we need proc's, bitch ain't coming bard if they can come blm. If don't need procs, they're still coming blm because they can go off and solo TE's or scout next mob. If they're being lazy and had brd geared up, they come sing us a song. But making melee more powerful isn't a priority in abyssea as it was everywhere else, stuffs easy enough as it is.

In a pick up: mostly useless. If one comes along I wouldn't turn it down, but a good brd supporting 3 retards = 3 retards with good songs. If the choice is between a DD I know is excellent or a BRD thats might not be a idiot the DD is going to win.

Basically, if buffers aren't overpowered or required they generally aren't really "needed" or "fun" to play. SE had bard balance done properly @ 75 and it seemed like they understood this. Bards are great outside though...

[Mojo]

I don't understand the insults at me when you agreed with me? NIN/DRK tanked things you couldn't melee, and could tank as well as a PLD/NIN, that's exactly what we both said. They nerfed /drk and now it's not viable, I'm also not sure how you tanked ANYTHING nin/war before, nin/war was for merits/einherjar/dynamis/limbus, aka weak mobs. It never worked on sky gods, sea NMs, or omega/ultima.
NIN literally never tanked @ 75 unless it was NIN/DRK after 2008/7 or whenever the 2h buff + paladin buffs happened/when pld/nin became more mainstream.

Exactly what comments about nin/drk made me look horrible? You used stun, bind, sleep, kurayami, hojo, jubaku for normal hate, then spike hate vs enmity resets or DD's going all out with souleater/last resort. It worked amazingly well and was fun to play.

When you talk about NIN dd, are you referring to Abyssea? NIN DD is amazing in abyssea, are you sure you do equal damage to mnks wars sam's drk's etc outside? I don't really think you do, if you do show me please. The only NIN's I've seen have been horrible and I haven't played mine outside much, but average 1k jins on ep mobs is pretty retarded tbh when victory smite is going to be doing 3k+.

edit: also about the hate cap stuff..you don't have melee's going all out doing 8k damage on the harder VWNM's and use a paladin to tank, so they actually do tank stuff like that. The enmity/hate stuff in this game only works properly when fighting hard mobs like IT+++++ crabs in 2003 <_> That also makes me wonder about NIN/pld..as weird as that sounds.

NIN/WAR worked fine on most all of the mobs you listed if you had the right buffs (any melee job needed them to be effective anyways.) People simply made the mistake of never trying it. I honestly don't think you realize how mediocre PLD/NIN truly is.

You really need to sit down and consider what sets DD jobs apart from one another. What assumptions are you making about NIN that place it below other jobs in terms of DD? All that you've really said thus far is that "because it's NIN", not to mention the absurd bias that the weaponskill baseline you're using for MNK is Victory Smite while Blade: Jin is the baseline for NIN (the averages of which you gave are ridiculously inaccurate, btw.)

Anyways, consider that, MNK, for instance, benefits more from Abyssea buffs than NIN, yet NIN generally still wins for pure DD unless you have a lot of buffs. It's because NIN is a top notch DD until you get enough haste to start cutting into your DWC. The same trend is often true outside of Abyssea too, and it's not just restricted to NIN vs MNK. It's not just coming from a Kannagi NIN either, I also have Vere/Ukon/Gandiva and enjoy playing those jobs too.

The hate cap comes into play with any respectable DD. If you're DD are holding back because you're using some tank that can't cap hate, then you ought to just replace your tank with a DD that can.

[Churchill]

2k jins was/is a meme from a few years ago.


Took awhile to put this together the way I wanted it, anyway, I don't usually disagree with Mojo...MNK does gain a lot more from Atma buffs than NIN does, but I don't see NIN beating MNK in any situation
where they are buffed the same (In abys assume best atma sets for each). Victory Smite vs Blade: Jin is definitely a silly argument, and when compared against Ascetics Fury I think I can actually push my Jins a little bit ahead, however overall MNK is still doing more damage per fist, countering more, DPS wise I still see MNK winning. Aside from a huge AGI boost in Abys, Hi isn't doing a whole lot more than a great Jin setup would do (Think 500ish on average vs 1500 for an Ascetics vs VSmite comparison), though your range of highs is a lot better and of course you have the ODD.

The biggest thing I'd say was going against a NIN for holding hate outside of abys is their lower 'white damage' and 1h accuracy vs tougher mobs; DD wise, in order to buff a party of DD's optimally you are technically not buffing the NIN assuming 2xMarches (+3/+4 marches being irrelevant to them)

A question I'd place to a Kannagi NIN is have you tried using Hi -> Jin outside, since Jin is more amenable to builds supporting dDEX without sacrificing WS mods/attack/etc? Just playing with the DPS calculator this seems to be the case, so I was wondering if anyone has played with it at all.

[dasva]

Does it really matter that nin will do less dps when talking in terms of holding hate? Already been stated that you can cap hate with rather low amount of dmg and keeping it capped is childs play so even in situations with multiple people with capped hate the mob will just turn to whoever took the last action against it. So really in order to keep hate more often action frequency would play a bigger role then emnity gain.

[Mojo]

Jin vs Hi comparisons are rooted in the assumption that their base critical hit rate is the same which, given recent testing, is probably false. Also you might want to take a look at what I posted in the other thread in regards to Hi WS gear.

Job	D Main	D Sub	D Kicks	ν Main	ν Sub	ν Kicks		ν DMG		TP/hit	ν TP	ν WS		WD Main	WD Sub	fTP Main	fTP Sub	WS DMG		ν WS DMG
Monk	93	93	104	0.47732	0.47732	0.068536	95.90926	5.3	5.42283	0.0542283	217	217	2.73809		3.35559	1322.32856	71.70766688
Ninja	70	51	0	0.79415	0.79415	0.000000	96.09215	4.5	7.14735	0.0714735	213	194	4.40059		1.45559	1219.71013	87.17695198

This is NIN vs MNK in Abyssea with RR/GH/Apoc and Haste (both with Empyreon.) It makes the assumption of capped attack, which will definitely occur with a Stalwart's Tonic. NIN comes out ahead although it makes some assumptions about mob attack rate. This isn't really that outlandish considering that, from my experience, they are pretty much the same with a select few exceptions.

White damage rules are the same outside Abyssea as inside. If it's low it's because of low attack, in which case the only job with a significant advantage is Dark Knight.

[Pendulum]

Awesome, someone using nu outside quantum physics!

[Churchill]

I saw, responded etc. I took a look at that gear selection again. Try looking at Sanguine Scythe instead of GH for MNK, I know it goes against equal stats but in this case NIN is benefiting quite a bit more from one Atma than MNK is, while on the other hand MNK is benefiting a great deal more DPS and WSD wise with SS on (Goes back to MNK getting more out of Abyssea than NIN does)

wat do for that comparison you posted? What's it from?

[Mojo]

I took it off the SEA forums from a post I made a while ago about pretty much the same topic.

[Shiyo]

Too much math for me @_@ I just want proof showing that NIN can do as well as the other DD's outside abyssea.

[Esvedium]

~Rancor Collar stuffs~

Spoiler: show

Autoexec:

<register event="gainbuff_Copy*" silent="true">input /ma "Tornado" &lt;t&gt;</register>
   <register event="losebuff_Copy*" silent="true">input /ma "Tornado" &lt;t&gt;</register>

Spellcast:

<if spell="Tornado">
			<if buffactive="Copy*">
				<var cmd="set DDNeck Rancor Collar" />
			</if>
			<else>
				<var cmd="set DDNeck Iga Erimaki" />
			</else>
		</if>

From there, something like:

<if spell="trigger spells">
			<if status="engaged">
				<equip when="precast" set="$Melee" />
			</if>
			<cancelspell />
			<return />
		</if>

i<3u

[shepardG]

so i'm working on my mule, he's a galka, and he's gonna be my cure/proc/mage bot, i unlocked SCH recently, and was wondering is my best bet to just run him up to 10-12lvl wise then try and find a summoner burn? or ... i can't dual box yet, as my connection won't allow it, so i'm stuck probably solo'ing him to 30? and then key whoring?

[cdgreg]

Jin vs Hi comparisons are rooted in the assumption that their base critical hit rate is the same which, given recent testing, is probably false. Also you might want to take a look at what I posted in the other thread in regards to Hi WS gear.

Which thread are you referring to? I just completed Kannagi on a mule and want to make sure I've geared correctly!

[Ganukay]

Anyone have experience dealing with a wrongful ban from SE and getting it reversed? My mule account got banned about 3 weeks ago (for RMT activities, according to them), that's when I put in the ban complaint. Having to level up a mule again isn't too bad, but had my alexandrite and some gil on the account, so quite a bit lost. Every time I call SE or use their chat support, they tell me my ban complaint hasn't been reviewed or denied. I also had someone tell me that bans rarely get reversed in these cases. So, should I just get to work on a new account? How long should I expect to wait for a resolution on my ban complaint, or is that never going to happen?

[Kohan]

Anyone have experience dealing with a wrongful ban from SE and getting it reversed? My mule account got banned about 3 weeks ago (for RMT activities, according to them), that's when I put in the ban complaint. Having to level up a mule again isn't too bad, but had my alexandrite and some gil on the account, so quite a bit lost. Every time I call SE or use their chat support, they tell me my ban complaint hasn't been reviewed or denied. I also had someone tell me that bans rarely get reversed in these cases. So, should I just get to work on a new account? How long should I expect to wait for a resolution on my ban complaint, or is that never going to happen?

Considering that no one is banned without prior strikes on their account, the likelihood of the ban being reversed is next to nothing. Unless someone genuinely made a mistake, you're not getting that account back.

[Ganukay]

It was a mistake, I've never had a strike on either of my accounts. Was probably their ban bot, thought me trading gil between my 2 accounts was RMT.

[Chun Liroy]

Considering that no one is banned without prior strikes on their account, the likelihood of the ban being reversed is next to nothing. Unless someone genuinely made a mistake, you're not getting that account back.

Suspected rmt can get banned without warnings or temp bans, as far as I know. I have no idea how se will handle it. Good luck.