Migawari and Igi Ningi +2

[Yugl]

Holy fucking shit. She laid everything out so perfectly for you people. How are some of you so fucking stupid.

No, it's not occasionally something else. No, you don't have to wear it during casting. No, 77% isn't almost 85%. Fucking fuck. Fuck.

You were reading my PT chat log weren't you hacker.

[Anso]

Holy fucking shit. She laid everything out so perfectly for you people. How are some of you so fucking stupid.

No, it's not occasionally something else. No, you don't have to wear it during casting. No, 77% isn't almost 85%. Fucking fuck. Fuck.

rofl

[Cream Soda]

84%?

[FailureMidgard]

Well, after re-testing, it seems like something was changed since December (no idea what).
Convert gear, -HP gear, and +PDT gear all seemed to work perfectly fine to confirm Kirschy's results, but according to my logger from December:

[14:31:39]Failure casts Migawari: Ichi.
[14:31:39]Failure gains the effect of Migawari.
[14:31:49]The Cactuar uses 1000 Needles.
[14:31:49]Failure takes 1082 points of damage.
[14:31:59](Failure) 345/1107
[14:32:00]Failure uses Curing Waltz III.
[14:32:00]Failure recovers 327 HP.
[14:32:35]Failure's Migawari effect wears off.

1082/1107 = 97.7%, current Migawari would have procced it.

I was apparently not full, but that definitely should have procced it. (1082 is from a Minerva's). I just redid the test with a Minerva's and 1074 max HP (1000/1074 is 93% if it was checking pre PDT, which would not proc it, 1082/1074 would obviously proc it if it were post-PDT) and survived, so at some point since December at least something about Migawari was changed. Don't care what since it doesn't really matter at this point, but I wouldn't jump on people too fast for asking for a little more clarification in a situation like that.

[TheDirtyHobo]

Funny you bring this up, 'cause either it was changed, or there actually is something with convert gear vs -hp gear vs PDT gear. The 75% on +2 thing seems to be some rumor floating with no data at all to support it (correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't seen it though), but the original tests vs these tests are in disagreement on the 95 vs 100% deal, which really can't be explained any way other than it was randomly changed in the last patch, or some gear is treated differently...

Supporting this, something has to be interfering with Kirschy's test. Used this "gear":

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...529_221233.jpg

Got this result:

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...529_221254.jpg

[FailureMidgard]

Was that test just now? If so, perhaps it has some sort of check or bug related to not being at full HP. Redoing the math with the cure I hit myself with after I took the 1k needles, I was short 7hp on my December testing, you're obviously short some HP based on your logs. If that was done today, I don't see any other explanation outside of the HP deficit.

[TheDirtyHobo]

Was that test just now? If so, perhaps it has some sort of check or bug related to not being at full HP. Redoing the math with the cure I hit myself with after I took the 1k needles, I was short 7hp on my December testing, you're obviously short some HP based on your logs. If that was done today, I don't see any other explanation outside of the HP deficit.

Yes, like 5 minutes ago.

Edit: I'll go retest again and keep shadows up the whole time to keep HP max, see if that changes anything.

[FailureMidgard]

Can you test again same gear, but try to be at full HP (maintain shadows and hit it to give it TP)? I really wish I had a lvl 1 job to sub atm.

[TheDirtyHobo]

Of course it actually manages to hit me right after, go figure; but I got a <hp> macro off before showing 1/1001.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...529_224435.jpg

[FailureMidgard]

Curious. What's your ninjutsu skill at?

[TheDirtyHobo]

Curious. What's your ninjutsu skill at?

Embarrassingly bad, 179. I guess that could be a factor.

[FailureMidgard]

Embarrassingly bad, 179. I guess that could be a factor.

Well, that's my new best guess. FWIW, for my December tests I was definitely under the level 90 gearless cap, but I've gotten tons of skillups + 8 merits since then (and am now at 368 naked). I'm fairly certain from previous conversations with her that Kirschy is capped/near cap as well.

I may try to test again, buffing Ninjutsu as much as possible, see if I can get a proc at a number lower than Kirschy's tests gave.

[edit: No Ninjutsu Torques up atm Anyone have one on Phoenix I can borrow?]

[TheDirtyHobo]

Well, that's my new best guess. FWIW, for my December tests I was definitely under the level 90 gearless cap, but I've gotten tons of skillups + 8 merits since then (and am now at 368 naked). I'm fairly certain from previous conversations with her that Kirschy is capped/near cap as well.

I may try to test again, buffing Ninjutsu as much as possible, see if I can get a proc at a number lower than Kirschy's tests gave.

[edit: No Ninjutsu Torques up atm Anyone have one on Phoenix I can borrow?]

If it's skill related, wouldn't that basically make Ningi+2 trigger at 10% less than default? If it's a flat rate 85% regardless of skill, it would grow slightly less useful as you skill up and get higher levels. Think I'll see what I can get to test this.

[FailureMidgard]

If it's skill related, wouldn't that basically make Ningi+2 trigger at 10% less than default? If it's a flat rate 85% regardless of skill, it would grow slightly less useful as you skill up and get higher levels. Think I'll see what I can get to test this.

It would have to be. Are you just going to try to test the 90% border at your current skill? I'm gonna work on testing with 383 skill, see if I can break Kirschy's 95% in the meanwhile. If it proves fruitful, I may double-check af3+2.

[Foldypaws]

IIRC, The Ni/San nukes have a breakpoint effect at 269 skill (capped for level 75) I'm wondering if Migawari could have a similar magic number. Perhaps you need at least 269 skill for it to do anything at all.

[FailureMidgard]

IIRC, The Ni/San nukes have a breakpoint effect at 269 skill (capped for level 75) I'm wondering if Migawari could have a similar magic number. Perhaps you need at least 269 skill for it to do anything at all.

Highly doubt it's that high to have an effect at all. I think you have to break a certain number to get it to drop under 100% of maximum HP (354 is my best guess - cap at lvl 90, but it may be cap at level 88, when you get Migawari?). I think that with 1 skill, it'll work if dmg>100% HP. I can't really test low skill as I'm 2 away from cap w/ merits, but someone else can.

That being said, Kirschy's tests are definitely incorrect (though I'm glad she did them. With 383 skill and 0 af3, I just procced Migawari with an attack doing 90.17% of my max HP. Previous to that, I did it with exactly Kirschy's HP values (1064) and it procced as well.

Screenshots (sorry, jumped the gun on the first one so you can't see the 0 in the log, took a 2nd just incase someone wants hard proof, but meh):

Spoiler: show

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...0a2b0038b8.jpg
http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...0a2b0038b9.jpg
http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...0a2b0038ba.jpg

[TheDirtyHobo]

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...529_233923.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...529_233756.jpg

1000/1129 = 88.57%

Going to try as close as I can get to 90 next.

[Foldypaws]

Highly doubt it's that high to have an effect at all. I think you have to break a certain number to get it to drop under 100% of maximum HP (354 is my best guess - cap at lvl 90, but it may be cap at level 88, when you get Migawari?).

Just to clarify, I meant "perhaps you need at least 269 skill for skill to have any effect" not "for Migawari to have any effect". "It" was admittedly not specific.

Having it be 354 or 342 are of course also reasonable numbers.

[TheDirtyHobo]

Just speculation at this point, but I would guess that it moves in tiers of 5% based on your skill. Ningi+2 subtracts another 10% (2 tiers), so it should be a pretty safe bet to assume Ningi+1 subtracts 5% (1 tier).

[Yeyoking]

Just speculation at this point, but I would guess that it moves in tiers of 5% based on your skill. Ningi+2 subtracts another 10% (2 tiers), so it should be a pretty safe bet to assume Ningi+1 subtracts 5% (1 tier).

So now we just need to figure out the tiers to optimize ninjitsu skill+haste when casting Migawari. Can't believe SE actually managed to make ninjitsu skill relevant. Ninjitsu Torque just jumped in price!!!