Migawari and Igi Ningi +2

[Foldypaws]

So now we just need to figure out the tiers to optimize ninjitsu skill+haste when casting Migawari. Can't believe SE actually managed to make ninjitsu skill relevant. Ninjitsu Torque just jumped in price!!!

Assuming that it isn't based on your skill at time you take damage. (The Body is, after all) And Enspell 2 are based on your skill at time of hit.

[Yeyoking]

Assuming that it isn't based on your skill at time you take damage. (The Body is, after all) And Enspell 2 are based on your skill at time of hit.

Honestly, the worst piece of gear you have to full time is Koga Kyahan +1 (for Ninjutsu+12) if it's based on your skill at the time you take damage. Strangely, there isn't alot of gears that have Ninjutsu skill+ probably cause it is (was?) a joke and SE knew it so they didn't brother to include it anywhere past 75 cap.

[FailureMidgard]

I wouldn't make assumptions too quickly. Results coming soonish (30min?). They are looking -very- nice.

[TheDirtyHobo]

I would think that being able to cap haste and therefore have Migawari up full-time would ultimately be better than having it potentially proc early AND have downtime.

Also, my tiers idea may be wrong, anyways, unless it involves some fancy 1024th roundings.

Spoiler: show

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...530_003102.jpg

1000/1111 = 90.09%, should proc, does.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...530_003117.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...530_003503.jpg

1000/1112 = 89.93, shouldn't proc, does.

[Arthars]

There is more than meets the eye. Damnit its interesting

[Casey_]

What if it's some crazy HP% like how parade gorget works? only "visible" gear, but a ring isn't visible, must be some other factor. Though for ninjutsu, that seems unlikely to operate anything like parade gorget. I know a few ninjas with a lot of ninjutsu skill gear, maybe I could bother them into testing.

[FailureMidgard]

Holy fucking shit. She laid everything out so perfectly for you people. How are some of you so fucking stupid.

No, it's not occasionally something else. No, you don't have to wear it during casting. No, 77% isn't almost 85%. Fucking fuck. Fuck.

Okay, so I'm done collecting data for now. My net is acting like a piece of shit. If someone else wants to go fill in holes or confirm some stuff, be my guest. I'm getting a headache from logging in 2 different characters repeatedly.

Anyway, here's what I came up with so far. All tests were done without AF3+2 body. I'm fairly convinced from both Kirschy and TheDirtyHobo that AF3+2 body subtracts 10% of your maximum HP off of the required damage done by said attack, regardless what your base value is.

1. 383 Skill
Breakpoint: 1229 HP Annul, 1234 HP Damage. Attack equal to 81.037% - 81.367% of maximum HP (81.202 mid)
2. 383 Skill for cast, 373 Skill for 1k needles landing.
Result: 1229 HP Annul. Seems conclusive enough to me that skill only needs to be on when the spell is cast. Someone else can feel free to repeat and be sure I didn't make an error, but I'm fairly certain I didn't.
3. 373 Skill (My fucking ninjutsu decided to level up so I didn't get a clean 10 levels)
Breakpointish: 1204 HP Annull, 1214 HP Damage. Was testing 1209 when skilled up...
4. 374 Skill
Breakpoint: 1204 HP Annull, 1209 HP Damage. Attack equal to 82.713% - 83.056% of maximum HP. (82.885)


TLDR: 10 more skill reduced the required damage by ~1.7% of max HP. A +30 gearset (feet, head, cape, torque, ear) is giving you an additional 5% of your maximum HP leeway. I'm not sure if this is worth the inventory or not, but it's definitely nice, and there's definitely a huge difference between a low ninjutsu skill Migawari and a cap+merit+gear Migawari. Also, skill ONLY NEEDS TO BE ON FOR THE CAST.

To be tested still:
-Double check tiers (if anyone does, find a breakpoint for your gear, then at the very least use my numbers as a guess as where your breakpoint should be for your new skill value, it'll make the testing significantly faster).
-Check for a cap (I'm missing a bit of gear for this...)
-Check for a base. Extrapolating from my numbers, expected base is around ~272 skill. Lvl 75 cap was 269, may be that exactly. Further guessing at Kirschy's Ninjutsu skill for fun...right around 300ish.
-Convert to a cleaner /1024 or something system?
-Double check my claim that ninjutsu is only at cast (really, 2nd person double checking is always good).

Also, to reiterate, convert gear, +/- HP gear, and +/- PDT gear all work perfectly with the formula, look at your final HP value and the final damage the attack does after calculating PDT, and compare those numbers. IF damage is greater than X% of max HP, it will annul. If not, it won't.

[Yugl]

FM bringing the goods within minutes, damn. I especially like that "only when casted" part. Also, fuck NIN.

[Atoreis]

Unfortunately mitigating any damage less then 95% of your HP is rarely a good thing when you are using Migawari. If you gonna use migawari in a fight where mob's TP move can do 80-110% of your HP then you want it to proc only on those life threatening attacks not to be wasted on some weaker ones after which you can just toss Cure VI.

[Apelila]

1000/1111 = 90.09%, should proc, does.
1000/1112 = 89.93, shouldn't proc, does.

Maybe it rounds up on HP? FM's tests sort of support this unless I'm just completely herp derping on what I'm reading.

Edit: Since your skill is low (Don't feel bad, mines 140 right now and will likely be there after I get NIN up to 90) it would be safe to say the skill isn't a factor in that second test.

[Kirschy]

Wow interesting stuff. I never even considered ninjutsu skill as a factor. My skill for the testing was 323, significantly below the cap. I'll update the OP with the additional information.

[Byrthnoth]

So what data points do we have here?
LowLow Skill = Requires 100% HP to proc.
LowLow Skill + Ningi = Requires around 90% HP to proc
323 Skill = 94-95.3
374 Skill = 82.713-83.056
383 Skill = 81.067-81.367%
407 Skill + Ningi = 63.6-63.97% reduction

Knowing SE, we can bet that it's linear and can do a simple regression back to a threshold. 269 is probably correct, but it would be nice to confirm.

[Kirschy]

I'm betting once we figure out the rounding, it'll be about 20skill - 5% to activation %.

[Byrthnoth]

Okay, so Failure's money is on a 269 potency start, and Kirschy's money is on a 300 potency start!

[FailureMidgard]

Okay, so Failure's money is on a 269 potency start, and Kirschy's money is on a 300 potency start!

Nah, my 4am guess using the middle of the 2 ranges as a really really rough guess put it conveniently close to the lv 75 cap, so I posted it as a possibility. Since Kirschy's skill is already way out of the range of that (and is a decent point to narrow that range down), it's pretty obvious it's not 269. 300 sounds much more likely. This makes the incline slightly lower, fwiw.

Unfortunately mitigating any damage less then 95% of your HP is rarely a good thing when you are using Migawari. If you gonna use migawari in a fight where mob's TP move can do 80-110% of your HP then you want it to proc only on those life threatening attacks not to be wasted on some weaker ones after which you can just toss Cure VI.

Is said mob spamming TP moves or something? I'm a bit confused. Realize, all my testing was without AF3 body. With capped gear and skill, I could probably get down to ~75% without AF3, ~65% with AF3. Yes, on a fight where a mob can do 65-110% of my HP with a TP move, this may suck. On the other hand, on a fight where it can do 50-85% of my HP with a spell or TP move, especially outside of Abyssea, this is pretty amazing. And frankly, who gives a fuck about Abyssea at this point. The shit is all a joke, every strategy is well known and virtually every boss is doable by a 2box alone. Saving a bunch of MP outside (aka, future and even some current content) seems like a good enough goal.
In 2 famous words: Shit's situational.
Overall though, I think it's pretty good. I feel most 1 shots are pretty clearly a 1 shot, and very few mobs have the potential to both 1 shot, then also do ~70-90% of your HP also with the same or a different TP move. Things like 10k needles, Discoid, Odin's shit, etc you'll be fine vs, but with capped skill/etc, you can use it on so many more fights, I feel.

[Atoreis]

Overall though, I think it's pretty good. I feel most 1 shots are pretty clearly a 1 shot, and very few mobs have the potential to both 1 shot, then also do ~70-90% of your HP also with the same or a different TP move. Things like 10k needles, Discoid, Odin's shit, etc you'll be fine vs, but with capped skill/etc, you can use it on so many more fights, I feel.

Maybe, it also heavily depends on you race and merits. Difference between Taru with mp merits and Galka with HP is huge now. Doing ninjutsu sets based on your HP and what you fight can be pretty funny.

Instead of just guessing how this can be helpful lets just try to think about the mobs on which this can be use effectively and just post them here?

[Yugl]

Or we could figure this shit out now for when we do need it. Since Migiwari fails to activate on fixed damage TP moves according to Kirschy, it wouldn't be surprising if outside Abyssea application best centers our gear towards the 75% range. Also, consider how this will affect your experience going from 90-99. Unless SE decides to crash your skill post 90, it will be helpful for calculating the %activation once we hit 99.

[Arthars]

I bought migawari since it was introduced and havent really used it. Only used for discoid chariot cos i dont die to anything else

this finding can be really good outside abyssea(who cares about carebear abyssea zones now), possible 65% sounds awesome in some situation

Maybe, it also heavily depends on you race and merits. Difference between Taru with mp merits and Galka with HP is huge now. Doing ninjutsu sets based on your HP and what you fight can be pretty funny.

Instead of just guessing how this can be helpful lets just try to think about the mobs on which this can be use effectively and just post them here?

in VW, migawari allows your nin to go be a hero DD until mobs unleash 1 fucking goresome aoe and your nin can stay 100% HP, run out to wait for another migawari and come back in again. Most of the time, NM does enough AOE damage to make migawari effect kicks in. eg. Norn arrow and yes you can anticipate that but if you dont use PLD tank, migawari can tank every Norn arrow.

most T3 and 4s aoe can fucking 1 shot DD and this helps ninja fight extra.

PDT/MDT gear? then gtfo dont feed mob TP in the last phase. You know what im talking about if you do VW.

[Mojo]

Some data.

407 Ninjutsu skill & Iga Ningi +2

886/1385 O	63.97%
886/1393 X	63.60%

[Yeyoking]

Some data.

407 Ninjutsu skill & Iga Ningi +2

886/1385 O	63.97%
886/1393 X	63.60%

I wonder if SE put a cap on it. It would suck at LV99 if we are able to reach <75% just from nature Ninjutsu skill progression.