Playing roulette to earn a living...

[Demosthenes11]

why would you willingly go into a casino, knowing you will lose money, and play until you run out? do you get off on losing or something? gambling mentality is like teenage immortality.

Why do you pay money to go do anything? Don't you know when the event is over, the money is gone?

[geno]

why would you willingly go into a casino, knowing you will lose money, and play until you run out? do you get off on losing or something? gambling mentality is like teenage immortality.

Everyone who goes into a casino should know they will more likely than not lose money, lol. Unless they are poker players, and even then they'd have to be smart and decent to have good odds.

It's like aurik said, it's basically like an amusement park. You don't go there to make money either, you go there for the experience.

[Demosthenes11]

I love people that have a superiority complex about the dumbest shit.

[solanis]

Why do you pay money to go do anything? Don't you know when the event is over, the money is gone?

so discounting the addicts, it's for people who get off on getting kicked in the dick, basically

Everyone who goes into a casino should know they will more likely than not lose money, lol. Unless they are poker players, and even then they'd have to be smart and decent to have good odds.

It's like aurik said, it's basically like an amusement park. You don't go there to make money either, you go there for the experience.

what's the experience element, out of curiosity? is it the sensation of being around so many financial transactions? is it the adrenaline from having money on the line? is it feeling like a high roller? all of the above? I'm not a gambling man; the only sensation I get is anxiety and sickness over losing money so easily when I'm in a casino.

[geno]

Well, you only get kicked in the dick at the end. You have to remember you'll win some a long the way. If you enjoy that experience, it may be worth the end cost, particularly if you are with friends and enjoy the environment.

[Demosthenes11]

so discounting the addicts, it's for people who get off on getting kicked in the dick, basically

Why do people go to sports games? Why do people go to museums? Why do people go to the beach? Why do people go to casinos?

Because it's fun. Casinos are the same thing as a movie theater or any other kind of entertainment establishment, only the casinos aren't as up front about taking your money in exchange for the entertainment.

[aurik]

Man why would you ever spend money to be entertained, at the end of it you have less money and that's like being kicked in the dick even though it was a good time.

[solanis]

Why do people go to sports games? Why do people go to museums? Why do people go to the beach? Why do people go to casinos?

Because it's fun. Casinos are the same thing as a movie theater or any other kind of entertainment establishment, only the casinos aren't as up front about taking your money in exchange for the entertainment.

there's a huge difference between a movie theater and a casino. in a movie theater you get your movie for a fixed price and the only displeasure is a bad movie or a externality. in a casino, you're in there losing money until you don't have any left. I really can't envision any sort of healthy happiness coming from those micro-kicks to the gut every couple of minutes. I guess it's outweighed by whatever experience you guys are talking about?

[Moss]

You are aware it is also possible to win money?

[Demosthenes11]

there's a huge difference between a movie theater and a casino. in a movie theater you get your movie for a fixed price and the only displeasure is a bad movie or a externality. in a casino, you're in there losing money until you don't have any left. I really can't envision any sort of healthy happiness coming from those micro-kicks to the gut every couple of minutes. I guess it's outweighed by whatever experience you guys are talking about?

it really is the same thing. you go to the movies with a certain $ amount in mind, and your entertainment ends where your money ends - you get 1 movie for that $400 or whatever the fuck ticket prices are now. If you go to a casino thinking "I will cap myself at $40," it's pretty much the same thing. You have the expectation of being entertained and coming home without that money - the exact same thing as paying for any other entertainment...

[solanis]

it really is the same thing. you go to the movies with a certain $ amount in mind, and your entertainment ends where your money ends - you get 1 movie for that $400 or whatever the fuck ticket prices are now. If you go to a casino thinking "I will cap myself at $40," it's pretty much the same thing. You have the expectation of being entertained and coming home without that money - the exact same thing as paying for any other entertainment...

I really do understand, I'm trying to highlight that the difference is that movies et al are (generally) a constant positive, and casinos are constant losses. and yes moss I know it's possible, but the statistical odds of it happening are low enough that it doesn't really happen. which is why casinos stay in business. inb4 anecdata about that time you made a profit in a casino which COMPLETELY INVALIDATES STATISTICS OKAY

[Snick]

I really do understand, I'm trying to highlight that the difference is that movies et al are (generally) a constant positive, and casinos are constant losses. and yes moss I know it's possible, but the statistical odds of it happening are low enough that it doesn't really happen. which is why casinos stay in business. inb4 anecdata about that time you made a profit in a casino which COMPLETELY INVALIDATES STATISTICS OKAY

man idk what you're talking about. statistically speaking most movies are shit too.

[aurik]

I really do understand, I'm trying to highlight that the difference is that movies et al are (generally) a constant positive, and casinos are constant losses. and yes moss I know it's possible, but the statistical odds of it happening are low enough that it doesn't really happen. which is why casinos stay in business. inb4 anecdata about that time you made a profit in a casino which COMPLETELY INVALIDATES STATISTICS OKAY

No, you don't get it. Some people get a lot of thrill from risking money. You don't, maybe. That's fine.

But just because casino entertainment has a variable price doesn't mean it's a terrible expenditure and fixed-price entertainment is good.

[Moss]

I really do understand, I'm trying to highlight that the difference is that movies et al are (generally) a constant positive, and casinos are constant losses. and yes moss I know it's possible, but the statistical odds of it happening are low enough that it doesn't really happen. which is why casinos stay in business. inb4 anecdata about that time you made a profit in a casino which COMPLETELY INVALIDATES STATISTICS OKAY

The point I was going to make is that the chance of winning money adds to the entertainment. A rational person shouldn't go in expecting to win, but it adds to the fun.

Your "kick in the dick" or w/e comment made it sound like a guaranteed loss.

[geno]

I really do understand, I'm trying to highlight that the difference is that movies et al are (generally) a constant positive, and casinos are constant losses. and yes moss I know it's possible, but the statistical odds of it happening are low enough that it doesn't really happen. which is why casinos stay in business. inb4 anecdata about that time you made a profit in a casino which COMPLETELY INVALIDATES STATISTICS OKAY

But anecdotes ARE the experience. You can lose money 9/10 times, win money the 10th time, be at a net loss, and still have a sick tale to tell of that time you went all-in with some shitty hand and raped some try-hard asshole on the river (sorry for poker example, it's the only game I really know lol). Financially speaking, you're out money overall, but you had fun the same as any other activity.

[bigrougabagel]

I get where solanis is coming from in that I can't personally see the benefit in gambling simply because I know that statistically, I am unlikely to win. Some people really enjoy the thrill of going against high odds and potentially coming away with cash. I'd picture it like soccer, scoring is few and far between, but when you do score, it's such a rush that you run around with your shirt off and dive into a pile of sweaty manflesh.

[geno]

You just can't go into it thinking about the money because you are likely to lose it (just like the upfront cost activities mentioned above). I think to enjoy it, you have to like the thrill of having a ton of money on the table and hoping you win. It's like playing Bingo or entering a raffle or whatever else. The odds aren't all that important if you enjoy winning or even playing significantly more than you dislike losing.

Still, definitely not for everyone. I don't really gamble at all, certainly don't go out of my way to do it. Personally I get better entertainment per dollar spent doing a lot of other things, but that is something that is different for everyone.

[Demosthenes11]

I'm not sure why the evaluation of entertainment for gambling is with winning money. playing games is fun. are board games less entertaining when you are losing? if yes, suck less

[Syntex]

I can see where the op is coming from and see why it looks like a money maker but keep reading and I'll show you why it isn't.

So a roulette wheel has 38 slots according to wiki, 2 green(0 and 00) and the rest split 50/50 to red and black which is 18 each. 18/38 is the ~47% chance for red or black. Now given X iterations this looks like it will become profitable because every bet covers all losses and nets a profit when the desired color is finally landed on.

The question is how many iterations are needed in order to achieve the profit and is it obtainable with the minimum and maximum bets set a casino? That is assuming you have the proper bankroll to fund all iterations and the casino doesn't stop you during the process and they allow doubling up on one color numerous times.

There is a 53% chance it won't land on the chosen color so after several rolls these are the odds.
1) 53%
2) 28%
3) 14.89%
4) 7.89%
5) 4.18%
6) 2.22%
7) 1.17%
8) 0.62%
9) 0.33%
10) 0.17%

So after doubling up 7 times on the chosen color you have a ~1% chance that it will not land on your chosen color.

The profit in all this will always be the amount of the initial bet so if you bet something like 10/20/40/80/160/320/640 and add up all the numbers left of the winning bet(say you won on the 7th bet which is 640) you would get:

640-(10+20+40+80+160+320)=Profit
640-(630)=$10 which is the starting bet.

Now the question still remains, at how many bets does this become profitable?

The answer is never.

At your 4th bet you have a ~8%(rounded up) chance to lose so lets run some numbers.

Spoiler: show

You play 100 games.
92% win chance and 8% loss chance.
$100 initial bets.
$9,200 dollars in winnings after cutting losses.
(100+200+400+800)*8
(1500)*8=$12,000 in losses.

So after 100 games you get a net loss of $2,800.

Now lets run numbers for your 5th bet which you have a ~4%(rounded down) chance to lose.

Spoiler: show

You play 100 games.
96% win chance and 4% loss chance.
$100 initial bets.
$9,600 dollars in winnings after cutting losses.
(100+200+400+800+1600)*4
(3100)*4=$12,400 in losses.

So after 100 games you get a new loss of $2,800.

Now some numbers for your 6th bet which you have a ~2%(rounded down) chance to lose.

Spoiler: show

You play 100 games.
98% win chance and 2% loss chance.
$100 initial bets.
$9,800 dollars in winnings after cutting losses.
(100+200+400+800+1600+3200)*2
(6300)*2=$12,600 in losses.

So after 100 games you get a net loss of $2,800.

Now some numbers for your 7th bet which you have a ~1%(rounded down) chance to lose.

Spoiler: show

You play 100 games.
99% win chance and 1% loss chance.
$100 initial bets.
$9,900 dollars in winnings after cutting losses.
(100+200+400+800+1600+3200+6400)*1
(12,700)*1=$12,700 in losses.

So after 100 games you get a net loss of $2,800.

So as you can see at a first glance this LOOKS like you can turn a profit because you will have a very high chance after doubling up several times but in the end cutting your losses from the previous bets nets you so little but when you lose its huge and you will NEVER reach a number of iterations where you can exceed your losses with your winnings.

The only time this might be plausible is maybe the 7th time you double up where your odds of losing is 1 in 100 and you stop before you lose. In the end though you only walk away with a few hundred but if you get unlucky and lose you lose BIG which is why they call it gambling.

The numbers don't lie and I hope this gives a much better picture for the OP to see why since he wanted someone a bit more open minded about it.

[Khamsin]

Black Jack is more heavily favored towards the house than Roulette. Roulette (and craps since it's basically the same game) are two of the "least tilted games" at casinos in terms of your chances of winning.

That being said, you still only have a 47% chance of winning every time, so in the long run: You're always going to lose.

I thought the "least tilted games" were the ones that casinos had to charge a commission on winning bets, because there is no intrinsic house edge.