Dev Tracker - Job adjustments 3rd June 2011

[Malacite]

SE just said they won't change the enmity cap on the official forums.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_BCtCxrvJns...xplanation.gif


Seriously why the fuck not? They could at least make an exception for PLD, since it's supposed to be the premier tank. WHM has uncontested reign over healing with CV & VI, BLM has the best damage per spell etc etc... is there something inherently wrong with PLD excelling at what it's meant to do?

[Neisan]

Their reasoning is changing it would upset game balance. Changing it so only Pld can hit a certain amount of enmity is potentially abuseable, Idk how you can't figure that out.

[Atoreis]

If they're determined to keep PLD as the only purely defensive job in the game, making Cover a job trait instead of an ability would go a long way. The gear enhancing Cover would actually be worth carrying around, and then it wouldn't matter if PLD could hold hate or not. Stack everyone behind him and you're golden. Change the G1 Cover merit to -6% damage taken while covering someone, and rise by 1%/merit to a cap of -10% damage taken while covering someone.

Please write this on official forum. It is the simplest and best idea I ever heard. You are my hero from this day !

[Malacite]

Their reasoning is changing it would upset game balance. Changing it so only Pld can hit a certain amount of enmity is potentially abuseable, Idk how you can't figure that out.

How, exactly? DD's being able to fire away at capped enmity and never get the mob's attention?

I can see that being abusive, but at the same time I thought that was traditionally the whole point of having a PLD in the first place - Take the hits and keep the mob out of everyone else's face.


Honestly how is that any worse than the current situation of DD's going apeshit vs mobs with reckless abandon because WHM can keep them alive almost indefinitely ?

[orson]

We brought up the topic of hate issues with the development team and they shed some light on their current direction. They mentioned that if they were to simply increase the hate cap in general, there would be a high possibility that it would cause the balance to become worse than it is currently. If they went another route and increased the hate cap only for specific jobs, it would also be a large contributor to a collapse of game balance, so they do not have any plans of doing this.

Unfortunately, raising the hate cap is really not a proper means of solving this hard to solve problem. As a general direction, problem. As a general direction, the development team will be focused on making adjustments so that each job can properly play their role. Ex: tanks can tank, healers can heal, etc

Just the messenger.

[Obsidian]

Please write this on official forum. It is the simplest and best idea I ever heard. You are my hero from this day !

Did that already. Post in/"like" the thread if you like the idea, I guess.

[Kaisha]

I'm a bit at a loss here, but are we talking hate control in general, or hate control within Abyssea to which balance altogether is thrown out the window?

Obviously outside Abyssea on shit that'll tear apart DDs (VW NMs), the hate system seemed to work fine, at least from a mage's perspective. DDs have to manage their damage also. In Abyssea taking damage is of zero consequence thanks to atmas/cruor-buffs/infinite-MP-WHMs-with-minus-30-or-more-Emnity-cure-bombing-your-ass.

But perhaps I'm missing the point here.

[Damane]

I'm a bit at a loss here, but are we talking hate control in general, or hate control within Abyssea to which balance altogether is thrown out the window?

Obviously outside Abyssea on shit that'll tear apart DDs (VW NMs), the hate system seemed to work fine, at least from a mage's perspective. DDs have to manage their damage also. In Abyssea taking damage is of zero consequence thanks to atmas/cruor-buffs/infinite-MP-WHMs-with-minus-30-or-more-Emnity-cure-bombing-your-ass.

But perhaps I'm missing the point here.

I am on the same boat here, hate on Voidwatch NMs, seems to be fine. Even PLD seems fine on them. Its like everything was sent back to pre abyssea state, just with much better gear. From a mage perspective I wouldnt want some melee tank on some of the Voidwatch NMs, some AoEs can be pritty deadly :/. And even MP can become an issue if you dont have your obligatory brd rdm whm setup (with a 2. brd or cor). Getting one shoted as a NOT-Taru mage from one freaking move can be devestating. (seriously 1500 dmg ftw -_-).

The only thing broken seems to be inside of Abyssea, which honestly just needs an atma update/change for melees (like makeing crit hit atmas also apply to non crit hit WSs). as for the cure V/VI, didnt even touch Cure VI at all on VW NMs and rarely used Cure V. Cure VI/III with capped curepotency is the way to go if you dont want to overheal stuff.

[Malacite]

Agreed, PLD handles its role just fine within Voidwatch, at least for now. Who knows what the hell we'll get with parts 2~4 and the increasing level cap though.


However Abyssea is still for better or worse the center of the universe at the moment, and PLD & other jobs are still taking a shit-kicking inside it.

[Kaisha]

Then nerf the fuck out of atma/cruor-buffs, problem solved. Perhaps people would stop whining about emps being too easy also when you don't have a 3k HP buffer to rely on or can't zerg any NM dead after red proc in under 15 seconds.

[Atoreis]

Then Malacite will change his point of view for "Nooooo, Gimme back my super atmas I want my Masamune!"

I see no bad thing in place when we can relax and get some stuff before future hard content.

I have also no fucking idea why so many ppl whine about PLD in abyssea lol. I can put myself on hate cap maybe few second after other DD and I can use cover for that time. I can WS for 2-5k and chain crits with hits like other DD. Outside its even better because of DEX mode that let me crit a little more then WAR MNK etc. so I am much less behind them on damage.

I understand whining about hate cap because it makes whole "tanking" pretty stupid with few ppl reaching it but idk why those whining are only about PLD tank. PLD definitely makes less damage but not tanking less then DD in ping pong situation. Only NIN has lower delay per round then PLD (THF too but only assuming 176+150 delays daggers) so PLD should easily tank as much as other DD.

[lesiu]

If you are serious about PLD you shlould just get Almace/Ochain it's really not that hard and thats pretty much it. Zorro is awsome outside with its DEX mod let me do 1,5 ws dmg average and have pretty good DPS with aftermath. Thats nuff to hold hate(unless Uko WAR ya). This 100% cover idea would be just too good. Inside abyss i dont see any problem as well. Whatever im able to do with NIN+WHM i can do with PLD+RDM(WHM) as well with pretty much same kill speed(and yes i have Kannagi too). PLD isn't broken really just needs a bit more work then other jobs to gear it up right make it usefull. Makin shield/sword took me a month combined with whm mule and a 1 friend(and no i was not playing 15h/day). People should just whine less and work to improve more.

[Kaisha]

Two pieces of gear a job does not fix.

[lesiu]

my point was it does not need to be fixed in the first place

[Darkmagi]

I love my ochain/almace, but don't kid yourself with saying it kills as fast as kannagi nin.

[Atoreis]

I love my ochain/almace, but don't kid yourself with saying it kills as fast as kannagi nin.

That depends on what you fight. Ppl keep forgetting that you are usually tank on NIN in hybrid evasion set and even then on let say Alfard you will need to cast Utsu so much that PLD could even go ahead with many tp from shield blocks and just swinging in TP set. Same goes for Bukhis (+ you are almost secured from cruor dispel which can easily kill the nin tank), Iron Giants and possible more that I have no time to search now.

[Ragnus]

Ninja

The job abilities Innin and Yonin will no longer share the same recast timer.

I don't even play anymore but jesus christ what took so long SE?

[Esvedium]

I don't even play anymore

You should change that!

[arus2001]

Biggest exploit in giving PLD a different hate cap is that once they reach it, everyone else can pretty much go balls out with no consequence. Short of AoEs, this technically makes life easier for your healer since they'd only have to focus on the PLD. On the other end, let's say SE did grant that wish: Now every NM has hate resets, charms, instant deaths, or specialized AI that bypasses the enmity table like that one orc in the WoTG mission line. Heck, we're practically at that point already.

[arus2001]

Biggest exploit in giving PLD a different hate cap is that once they reach it, everyone else can pretty much go balls out with no consequence. Short of AoEs, this technically makes life easier for your healer since they'd only have to focus on the PLD. On the other end, let's say SE did grant that wish: Now every NM has hate resets, charms, instant deaths, or specialized AI that bypasses the enmity table like that one orc in the WoTG mission line. Heck, we're practically at that point already.