Hard Drive Probably Dead, Any Fixes?

[Gwynplaine]

TL;DR:
Hard drive seems like it's probably dead, is it? And any last chance fixes? / New hard drive installing for a noob advice.

Background for context:
So I bought a used gaming pc with specs much better than my old one. I've been using it with my old hard drive as a slave for about 4 or 5 months. Things were fine except every so often I would have blue screen crash issues, typically while playing graphically intense PC games. But once I installed a newer/better graphics card I was going to put in, the issue seemed to disappear so I attributed it to the old graphics card. (Now I wonder if it was the same issue all along).

Eventually however I would still encounter some random blue screens, typically while using Firefox with multiple tabs it seemed. I installed Windebugger and saved the crash dumps to try to get a solution but never really found anything satisfying.

Finally last week my hard drive started bluescreening again while running higher end PC games. It failed to restart, but would power up after unplugging it and letting it sit for a little while. Until now it suddenly crashed last week and attempting various adjustments has had no help, and it won't run ever since. So for now I'm using my old hard drive.

Specifically what happens is that when I start the PC up the hard drive makes a sort of stifled electronic buzz and then starts to spin but gives up after a moment. There's no "death click" noise, and no rattling sound if i shake it like spare broken parts. (Ironically my old hard drive DOES make loud grindy click noises all the time and has for like 4 years and had hardly any issues). The computer does seem to recognize a hard drive is there connected to the SATA, but it gives me a "primary hard drive error" at bootup and it goes nowhere.

My best guess seems that it's likely the hard drive is dead. It's been about 5 days now and nothing seems to work. Here's what I've tried to draw my conclusions:
-Using a different SATA cable had the same results, primary hard drive error.
-Using a different power hookup had the same results.
-Connecting it into my old PC case had the same results.
-My old hard drive runs just fine hooked up in the same fashion.

Now here's why I feel unsure as to if it's 100% a dead hard drive issue or something else:
-The hard drive seems to receive power and tries to run it just doesn't start up properly. It doesn't make "death clicks".
-My friend I got the PC from is one of those overclock/update everything to be best ever types and in the process he seems to make lots of problems for himself and his hardware. So I can only wonder if the real problem is in the memory or mobo or power or who knows. This thing is a crazy amalgam of crazy crap.

So I guess I'm just asking for your thoughts. HD is probably dead? I've never had an HD die on me before so I'm not sure what to look for. It is a Western Digital so it's not like it's some no name junk. I've already ordered a new HD anyways since I just really need a new one. Is there anything I could do to try to power it up to get info off it? Would be great if I could access it just once to transfer some files I'd lose. I heard of the "freezer trick". I tried to stick it in the freezer as a last ditch for like 2 hours but that had no effect. I could try leaving it for several hours next time I guess.

[Tymon]

Have you tried booting a linux distribution off a thumb drive or a CD and trying to access the drive that way?

Try that if possible, but yeah, it's probably dead.

Installing a new hard drive is incredibly simple. Just pop the old one out, put the cables back in the same slots, and install an OS.

[Gwynplaine]

Have you tried booting a linux distribution off a thumb drive or a CD and trying to access the drive that way?

Try that if possible, but yeah, it's probably dead.

Installing a new hard drive is incredibly simple. Just pop the old one out, put the cables back in the same slots, and install an OS.

I'm not terribly tech savvy with things outside the windows-verse, not sure how to use linux to do such a thing. I just tried using this program to repair it but it didn't even show up as a selectable drive like it doesn't recognize it so that's no good.


So I get how to connect it and all that. My only thing I need to check into is, does it need like formatting first or anything? And then I have to figure out how to get the initial OS installed. I seem to be forever cursed with a computer with a messed up CD drive that never works so I'm always limited to using like thumbdrives. I know there's flash thumbdrive parred down versions of some programs etc. but win7 seems way to big.

[Tymon]

If you have a thumb drive that's 4gb or larger, it can handle windows 7.

http://www.pendrivelinux.com/univers...easy-as-1-2-3/

Download that, select Windows 7 in the list, select your .iso that you got from wherever (I recommend http://forums.mydigitallife.info/thr...s-7-Repository ), run it on the EMPTY thumb drive.

Once done, boot off of it.

Same as booting from a cd, hit whatever key gets you to the boot menu on the pc when you start it up, select the usb stick (it has to be inserted ahead of time) and there you go.

^ all of those instructions are assuming your hard drive is dead and you have a new hard drive.

With Windows, you don't need to format it or anything. It'll detect your free space and format the whole drive for you on the initial install.

[Gwynplaine]

Hm ok interesting thanks.

[guartz]

Sounds more like a heat or power issue then a dead harddrive.

Best way to check is to take out the harddrive and hook it up via USB to a different computer and run a scan on it.
You can get a sata to usb adapter relatively cheap here http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...554&CatId=3770

scan software you can always download from the hard drive's manufacturers website.

[Gwynplaine]

Well I got my new HD and now I just need an OS to install to it I believe. I've tried several times now though to burn a windows 7 installation iso onto a DVD, and it appears to burn successfully. But putting the DVD into the drive gets no autostart or prompt on bootup to install Win7. Not sure what I'm doing wrong, I tried in 3 different burn programs Poweriso, ImgBurn, and Ulead Burn now. I know a disc has to be set as bootable to run on bootup and how to select boot priority at the prompt and all that. According to this thing I read ISOs burned in Poweriso are automatically made as bootable discs so I don't know what the trouble is.

When I put the burned Win7 DVD into the drive nothing really happens, the drive acts like it's reading it but it just hangs and entering mycomputer freezes forcing you to end the task. Any advice would be appreciated.

[shiarua]

Well I got my new HD and now I just need an OS to install to it I believe. I've tried several times now though to burn a windows 7 installation iso onto a DVD, and it appears to burn successfully. But putting the DVD into the drive gets no autostart or prompt on bootup to install Win7. Not sure what I'm doing wrong, I tried in 3 different burn programs Poweriso, ImgBurn, and Ulead Burn now. I know a disc has to be set as bootable to run on bootup and how to select boot priority at the prompt and all that. According to this thing I read ISOs burned in Poweriso are automatically made as bootable discs so I don't know what the trouble is.

When I put the burned Win7 DVD into the drive nothing really happens, the drive acts like it's reading it but it just hangs and entering mycomputer freezes forcing you to end the task. Any advice would be appreciated.

Bad ISO image that you are burning. Go download it again.

As for your other hard drive, have you tried fixmbr on it? If that doesnt work, its probably got unrecoverable bad sectors on the disc that just accumulated. Unfortunately there isnt much you can do about that.

[Gwynplaine]

Hmm ok I'll try a different one tomorrow.

I didn't try Fixmbr, but I tried HDD Regenerator which seems similar I guess but it didn't allow the HD as an option even since it's basically not staying powered on.

[Gwynplaine]

I tried a different Windows7 ISO and have the same result. I think my DVD drive is just being a dick and not reading burned DVDs. Even though it reads CDs and regular DVDs fine. Maybe it's the brand... I don't know anymore.


So back to the installation procedures, as I understand it I just need to connect the power and sata cables, boot up with a windows installation disc of some kind and installing windows will do all the formatting etc. for me right? Is that all I need to do?

I went to make a Windows XP installer right off of a USB thumbdrive instead. So I made it and now at the Text install option or whatever prompt it begins loading files then immediately bluescreens. Looking into that, I read something stating that Windows XP has no native support for SATA hard drives apparently so you need to take special steps. I guess that's why the bluescreen issue then?

So yeah fuck. I'm just all kinds of lost, I feel like it shouldn't be this hard. Amidoinrite? Is there an easier/better way? The thing is my DVD drive is being a dick not reading these burned DVDs, and the USBdrive I own isn't big enough to hold windows7. I suppose I'll have to go out and spend more on this anyway gawd. I just want to not be dealing with this anymore.

[shiarua]

For Windows XP, if you are using a SATA hard drive, you need to install the SATA driver before hand.

The manufacturer of your motherboard should have the SATA driver on their website.

[Omniyoji]

When burning it's best to burn at a lower speed and not max. 2x or 4x is slower but will net fewer errors. Also when I burn ISOs I always use dvd decrypter. The likelihood that you have a bad ISO is very low. If it still doesn't work after that, it's either cheap media or a bad burner?_?

[Gwynplaine]

Seems like this burner did not like the kinds of discs I was using to burn. Tried again with a different brand and it works now.

[Kohan]

No, it isn't always best to burn at a lower speed, and that this myth still lives on today is unfortunate. Don't believe it, as you'll be doing yourself a disservice.

For starters, many modern burners are not built to burn at the slowest speed possible, and forcing them to do so will actually decrease the quality of your end product. Secondly, bad media was mentioned, and that is in fact one of the things that can result in bad burns -- purchasing, say, Taiyo Yuden or higher end Verbatim discs will help ensure your final products' quality.

Beyond that, if you want your burns to turn out all right, do a few things: one, make sure you purchase a burner that's well-received; two, don't burn at a higher speed than what your media is rated at (e.g., don't burn 16x CD-Rs at 48x); and three, use good software to burn with (e.g., ImgBurn or Burrrn). That's all you need to do if you wish to produce quality data discs.

EDIT: The only possible exception to this is related to audio burning (as in CD-R burning), as there are some arguments that how the pits and dye are applied affects the final product, but considering how anal the music community is and how this isn't widely cited, I have no reason to believe it -- and I'm someone who archives all of their music religiously with a fine-tuned EAC in FLAC with a CUE, etc.

[hey]

No, it isn't always best to burn at a lower speed, and that this myth still lives on today is unfortunate. Don't believe it, as you'll be doing yourself a disservice.

For starters, many modern burners are not built to burn at the slowest speed possible, and forcing them to do so will actually decrease the quality of your end product.

What about slower speeds, as opposed to the slowest speeds? I usually burn at 4x, as that is what most people seem to say to use. More often than not when i have forgotten to change it, and just burned at the default speed (imgburn, 16x dvds), it has failed, or otherwise not worked. That's something like 4 out of 7 or so disks. lolsamplesize, yeah, but it was enough to get me to just burn at 4x.

Should i use a faster speed? If so, should i use the fastest speed the disk supports, or somewhere in between?

[Kohan]

What about slower speeds, as opposed to the slowest speeds? I usually burn at 4x, as that is what most people seem to say to use. More often than not when i have forgotten to change it, and just burned at the default speed (imgburn, 16x dvds), it has failed, or otherwise not worked. That's something like 4 out of 7 or so disks. lolsamplesize, yeah, but it was enough to get me to just burn at 4x.

Should i use a faster speed? If so, should i use the fastest speed the disk supports, or somewhere in between?

If your burner is reliably failing at the speeds it's meant to run at, there is something wrong, either hardware- or software-wise. Your experience doesn't support the theory that burning slower is better, but it is perhaps part of the reason why this myth is perpetuated -- people need new burners and/or have corrupted drivers, find that burning slowly works, and blame the technology instead of searching for a solution.

Fortunately, you're looking to fix the issue, which is a step in the right direction. Here's a few things you can try out:

Your drive may be burning in PIO mode, which is slow. You'll want to make sure it's using DMA mode. Here's a guide I found after a quick Googling:

1. Go to Control Panel>System>Hardware>Device Manager>IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers.

2. From there, right click on each of the channels and choose ‘Properties>Advanced Settings’. All drives should be DMA mode. The ‘Current Transfer Mode’ for Hard drives is usually DMA 4-6 and DVD burners DMA 2-4, DVD ROMs usually DMA. If you see any in PIO mode, that can slow things down.

3. If you find a PIO mode drive, changing them back may be easy or complicated. First see if you can change them in that window using the drop down menu.

4. If not, uninstall the channel the drive is on and let the OS reinstall it. This will usually take a reboot. This will not damage any files on the computer. Now your burner should be back to normal. Check the drive settings again when computer restarts & burn your files in peace.

If you need more information (and even if it does say you're in DMA mode), here's a cluttered but extremely comprehensive page on the issue: http://winhlp.com/node/10

Beyond that, what media are you using, and what model and make is your burner? How old is it? What operating system do you use? All of these things can be factors.

[hey]

The ATA channel says DMA 5 ultra.

A few of the failed disks were written on my old 5-6 year old desktop, running windows XP. Not sure what dvd drive it had, or settings, and too lazy to look. Most however were written with my laptop, bought in november last year, running win 7, using an hp BDDVDRW CT21LATA. And I believe most of the failed disks were Sony 16x disks.

[Kohan]

The ATA channel says DMA 5 ultra.

A few of the failed disks were written on my old 5-6 year old desktop, running windows XP. Not sure what dvd drive it had, or settings, and too lazy to look. Most however were written with my laptop, bought in november last year, running win 7, using an hp BDDVDRW CT21LATA. And I believe most of the failed disks were Sony 16x disks.

From a cursory Googling, it appears other people have suffered a variety of issues related to the CT21L ATA, some of which were repaired by the following:

http://support.microsoft.com/mats/cd...problems/en-us

If that doesn't work for you, you may wish to fish through the link provided in the previous post, as that has a bunch of different possible solutions you can try. I believe uninstalling the device's drivers is mentioned therein, but if not, that's something you can do too (which should simply consist of going into Control Panel, System, Devices, opening the drive's Properties and choosing to Uninstall its drivers, then rebooting).

There's absolutely no reason for a modern day drive to be burning at 2003 speeds. Sony media isn't completely awful, either, or I'd at least suppose it's not -- it could suffer from the same thing some of the other brands do (e.g., Verbatims manufactured in Taiwan are not as good as those manufactured in other countries, if I'm remembering correctly).

Regardless, it appears that the drive you have is relabeled by various manufacturers/resellers (HP, LG, etc.) and -- according to Google -- prone to various issues. The first few pages of search results either yield sites selling the product or people complaining that it doesn't work. Hopefully, you don't actually have a defective unit and instead have an issue that can be resolved through software troubleshooting.

As for the XP PC, I'd say that burner has either long been on its way out or something's wrong on the software end that's causing all your problems.

[hey]

From a cursory Googling, it appears other people have suffered a variety of issues related to the CT21L ATA, some of which were repaired by the following:

http://support.microsoft.com/mats/cd...problems/en-us

If that doesn't work for you, you may wish to fish through the link provided in the previous post, as that has a bunch of different possible solutions you can try. I believe uninstalling the device's drivers is mentioned therein, but if not, that's something you can do too (which should simply consist of going into Control Panel, System, Devices, opening the drive's Properties and choosing to Uninstall its drivers, then rebooting).

What exactly does that do? I am not having any of those problems. The drive works just fine, however the success rate is just not so great at 16x (given a small sample).

As for the XP PC, I'd say that burner has either long been on its way out or something's wrong on the software end that's causing all your problems.

I've only actually written a dozen or two disks with it over the years, and again, it works fine, other than the increased speed of 16x not being worth the risk of having to reburn it.

Missed this before:

If your burner is reliably failing at the speeds it's meant to run at, there is something wrong,

Well, i wouldn't say it is reliably failing. I do not burn many disks, so i have not really tried many. The first handful i have done that i burned at 16x could very well have been bad luck. After hearing people repeatedly say to always burn at 4x, i just did, and never had a problem with that, so i have continued using 4x. If you are saying there is no need to burn that slow, then i'll try 8-12x in the future.

[Kohan]

The official Microsoft fix was suggested on various forums as a way to repair that specific drive and its problems. Basically, their "Fix It" programs run on your computer and guide you through a series of steps. In the end, they may say they can't do anything, and everything remains unchanged, or they may modify something after all. If you don't want to use it, that's fine -- it's just an option.

Here's a quick explanation as to why that myth isn't to be believed, and how you should react to burning on mediocre media:

Myth of burning slower. Discs are made to perform at an ideal rotational speed, which is where write strategy originates. The disc will perform best up to a certain speed, and the drive will not permit any faster. The inverse is the same, but until recently, drives would not prevent unreasonably low speeds. Modern human nature tends to want more speed and more power, so this was not really a concern.

But believe it or not, there are still people who insist on waiting 55-60 minutes to burn a CD or DVD at 1x speed, because they are convinced anything faster will yield a bad or "lower" quality burn. However, burning too slow is often just as bad as burning too fast. Because of this unreasonable impulse to go too slow, some discs and drives now block out the lower range too (and causes problems, see the 16x section for more).

There was some truth to that statement in the beginning, (circa 1995 for CD-R, 2001 for DVD-R), but those days are long gone. The only reason that myth ever held truth was because 2x was the fastest speed, and burning a single full or half speed under the maximum rating is helpful on lower quality blank CD/DVD media. If you are worried about quality, or if the media tends to be dodgy quality at the maximum rated speed, then burn a full or half step slower. No more. With a 8x disc, for example, a burn speed of 4x or 6x would be optimal.

Source: http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/med...a-concepts.htm

Any one of those people who have repeatedly suggested burning at 4x are leading you down the wrong path. It's better to understand why this happens than to believe slower burns equals better quality, because that is not true. You may have poor media, though, in which case you should follow the advice above (go a step or two lower, but no lower than that). I would also suggest buying Taiyo Yuden CD/DVD-Rs in the future. You can get them online cheaply and often with free shipping, and they're basically the best quality discs in the world.

I know that sounded like a paid endorsement, but it's just the truth. Endless amounts of disc comparisons have been done by quality nuts, and I'm certain a few Googles would turn them up. It's worth buying and waiting for the Yuden discs if you're concerned about the quality and longevity of the discs you're burning.