Is shuffle on Ipod truly random?(not to be confused w/ Ipod shuffle)

[Cream Soda]

I've had my Ipod for about a year and a half now and I don't think the shuffle feature is truly random. I'll get songs that pop a minimum of every other day (I have a large play list so I just put it on shuffle, about 1000 songs). Then I'll get songs that are lucky if it gets a single play in a 2-3 month period. Now, on Itunes, I notice it has a counter for the number of times a song has been played all the way through.

Some songs I listen to through the very end. Some songs, I skip all together and some songs I'll listen to but it has like a 20 sec outtro so I just hit next when I get to that part.

I notice the songs that have more complete plays show up much more often than anything else, to the point where I am getting them that minimum of every other day.

Thoughts, anyone?

[Ragns]

What direction were you facing, what day of the week was it and what was the current moon phase when you press next?

But seriously the shuffle "play deck" is generated at a certain interval to make sure the same song doesn't accidentally repeat itself too often but from what I heard the iPod doesn't put weights on certain songs unless you script it yourself with a smart playlist.

[izembo]

thought this was pretty obvious, but yeah, its keeping track of your preferences and then weighting what plays, or at least ive always assumed, because things ive used have done this for the past 5+ years

[Cream Soda]

is generated at a certain interval to make sure the same song doesn't accidentally repeat itself too

I was under the impression that it puts all your songs in a "random" order and just plays them one at a time until the playlist is over and then reshuffles them.

I've never had a song play a second time on any of my play lists w/o every other song in the play list having played at least once before (of course I haven't tested this w/ my 1k song play list, but easy to tell on smaller play lists)

[Fairy-Killer]

No "random" function is truly random as a human has to make it and there must be a hard formula for it. But I've always wondered the same thing about the iPods. Maybe reset play counts, put it on shuffle over an extended period without skipping, and then check again? See if the same songs come up near the top again.

Edit: And actually I have had the same song pop up twice so random > play entire list > re random is out. I can't remember if I had the playlist playing continuously, though.

[Ragns]

No "random" function is truly random as a human has to make it and there must be a hard formula for it. But I've always wondered the same thing about the iPods. Maybe reset play counts, put it on shuffle over an extended period without skipping, and then check again? See if the same songs come up near the top again.

There's already a feature with the smart playlists and the iTunes DJ to weight your songs on your iPod so why would they need to screw with that?

[Cream Soda]

No "random" function is truly random as a human has to make it and there must be a hard formula for it.

I'm no programmer, but couldn't there be a program that did something like.

Let's say I have a 1000 sided dice and 1000 songs. Put 1 song on each side and roll the dice. That'd make for a "truly random" effect, no?

[Overburn]

There'd be a 1/1000 chance for each song, which allows the possibility, albeit low, for the song to play back to back.

Wouldn't an easier method to test this be to have a 3 song playlist and see if always plays a new song? Could probably also do a slightly large playlist to see if it prioritizes certain songs based on play count.

[Ragns]

No "random" function is truly random as a human has to make it and there must be a hard formula for it.

FYI A function that is "statistically random" is usually good enough for most cases. A random function frequently used in the video game industry, and also because it's very fast to calculate, is to use the system uptime as a seed then use that random number to multiply that seed (very simplified summary there). But with a randomizer like that we couldn't get the same result twice in over 30 trillions rolls.

[Kaisha]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/random_number.png

[Souj]

As for the OP question;

I have 7,668 songs on my ipod and occasionally put it on shuffle. While it might not be completely random, I've never noticed anything to say otherwise.

[Draylo]

I've noticed this too lol

[Omniyoji]

...

Some songs I listen to through the very end. Some songs, I skip all together and some songs I'll listen to but it has like a 20 sec outtro so I just hit next when I get to that part.

I notice the songs that have more complete plays show up much more often than anything else, to the point where I am getting them that minimum of every other day.

Thoughts, anyone?

^ Fucking that!

Most of the time it seems to me that that's what is going on but on some rare occasions it doesn't seem so. I have a alternative/oldies/rock playlist with like nearly 500 songs. Four of those (maybe five) are Portishead songs and they always seem to get played. Sometimes two in a row. Apple's random doesn't seem so random and there are still songs yet to be played on the damned list!

[hey]

Looking over my playlist of ~150 songs that i usually listen to, i see almost every song at 80~120 plays, except songs that i frequently play manually, which are of course much higher. There's a few outliers, around 40ish, or 200+, but for the most part, they seem pretty consistent. Songs that i skip the end of are probably an average of ~30 or so lower than ones that i listen all the way through, which makes sense since that's probably about how many times i have skipped the end of them, since i don't usually pay enough attention to regularly skip any song.

It obviously is not truly random, as there is no such thing, but it does seem to be random enough, as far as i know.

Edit: And actually I have had the same song pop up twice so random > play entire list > re random is out. I can't remember if I had the playlist playing continuously, though.

No you have not. Not unless the song was on the play list twice, or you manually selected a song (which resets the list). You can have a song play last, then be first on the next shuffle though. If you go in itunes, order by number, then click the random button repeatedly, you can see it shuffling the playlist around every time you turn on shuffle. It is called shuffle for a reason; it is not the same as a random function. Random picks a song one at a time at the time it is played, and can result in the same song being played a million times in a row. Shuffle simply shuffles the songs up into a random order, and plays them in that set order until it is reshuffled, and can never have the same song played twice.

[Ragns]

No you have not. Not unless the song was on the play list twice, or you manually selected a song (which resets the list). You can have a song play last, then be first on the next shuffle though. If you go in itunes, order by number, then click the random button repeatedly, you can see it shuffling the playlist around every time you turn on shuffle. It is called shuffle for a reason; it is not the same as a random function. Random picks a song one at a time at the time it is played, and can result in the same song being played a million times in a row. Shuffle simply shuffles the songs up into a random order, and plays them in that set order until it is reshuffled, and can never have the same song played twice.

DAT

[Takedown3]

random seed bro