Second aid flotila bound for Gaza leaving this week

[Elvis]

Idiot.

--

And @Newfag:

You insist I'm straw-manning you. Yet, I quoted you at length and I didn't cherry-pick anything you said.

You said it had been 51 years. You emphasized it was 2011. You're implications are that since so much time has passed, a Jewish State is a fact and that the Israelis aren't going anywhere. I agree and I didn't say they should all fuck off.

What you failed to understand is that, whatever 'sensationalism' *you* (and idiots like Dimm/Plow/Solanis) perceive in my commentary - the central truth is that Israel has not ceased displacing Palestinians to define itself AS a Jewish State. A Jewish State means a Jewish majority. With the conquest and colonization of the territories, the Zionist project is still a work-in-progress.

Hence, whatever rage someone may feel with Israel's founding - which does NOT have anything to do with the right of Zionists to have nationalist aspirations - is precisely linked to HOW they went about it and the consequences of that nationalism for the OTHER PEOPLE around them - the Palestinians. The ethnic cleansing of 800K Palestinians in 1948. This ethnic cleansing began BEFORE the war had began.

And there is a rich history of Mandate Palestine, and the Zionist movement, and the all the tensions and sort of train-wreck that no one could stop (but knew was coming; i.e., Palestinians seeing all this land around them being bought up and suddenly realizing that this other group of people intended to carve out a State amongst them).

This is still happening, so 1948 will never be dismissed as simply ancient history.

Now, all you could muster since then is the intellectual equivalent of 'you mad' - which is why I kept calling you a fucking idiot. You're a fucking idiot and a troll.

Solanis couldn't even TALK about this issue. So we had to deal with 6 pages of a bullshit. An ACADEMIC at best, discussion of antisemitism. That's putting it generously. There is a reason why Yale recently disbanded it's antisemitism studies program.

LACK of interest and intellectual fraud.

ANYWAYS, I'm going to tune you out because you're clearly a pissant troll.

BACK TO POSTING IN HUGE FONT

PS: LOL@Plow coming in late, not having a rebuttal and resorting to posting some dumbass YouTube video. Get the fuck out of these threads, ignoramus. You have no idea what you're talking about. At least Wiki the conflict.

[Xno Kappa]

Newfag? Really?

lol...
Just sayin.

[Elvis]

If the "peace" activists ever make it to Gaza, they can stay here:

http://www.grandpalace.ps/

They are peace activists. No quotations needed.

I know that these accommodations are lacking due to the "humanitarian crisis" going on. However, one does not have to remain in this ghetto hostel all day. They could go out and try to scrape together some food and supplies here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbKxi...&feature=fvwre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Mall

The activists will need some time for relaxation and recreation, after a long day of starvation and fighting off oppressive zionists. There is little for them in Gaza, given its Warsaw Ghetto-esque conditions, but they could try here:

http://www.multka.net/vb/showthread.php?t=196974 (Update: Sorry all...Hamas closed it and burnt it down. Not sure if its still open.)

Not to worry. Perhaps here might work:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal_Equestrian_Clu

I hope the flotilla can make it to Gaza this time. My uncle used to tell stories of his days in WWII, and liberating a concentration camp. Water Parks, Luxury hotels and malls, these images haunt him even to this day. We took him to Typhoon Lagoon once, he broke down before we even got in the park. We didn't even try to take him to Downtown Disney.

None of these examples of the supposed high-life in Gaza invalidate the truth of the humanitarian crisis.

When you judge the living conditions of 1.5 million people - you do not simply show a picture or a video of a couple of hotels or a nice photo of ripe fruit and vegetables in a market AND then conclude: see, no crisis.

You conduct a study. You find any systematic evidence of widespread WHATEVER.

Then you come to a conclusion. That is how these reports by NGOs are made.

It can be true that there is a nice hotel in Gaza - but that nice hotel does not house, feed, clothe, etc. 1.5 million people.

And to post that GARBAGE and arrive at the conclusion that it's all not as bad as the UN, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, etc. say it is - really makes you look like a prick.

Since you are indeed a prick, it's not too shocking.

Once again though, none of that undermines the thorough research done on Gaza and the living conditions of the people living there.

If you can produce a study that says otherwise and deals with how the population as a whole is living and functioning under siege - then more power to you.

Until then, all you have are isolated examples that have no bearing on the bigger picture.

[Ashmada]

Idiot.

--

And @Newfag:

You insist I'm straw-manning you. Yet, I quoted you at length and I didn't cherry-pick anything you said.

You said it had been 51 years. You emphasized it was 2011. You're implications are that since so much time has passed, a Jewish State is a fact and that the Israelis aren't going anywhere. I agree and I didn't say they should all fuck off.

What you failed to understand is that, whatever 'sensationalism' *you* (and idiots like Dimm/Plow/Solanis) perceive in my commentary - the central truth is that Israel has not ceased displacing Palestinians to define itself AS a Jewish State. A Jewish State means a Jewish majority. With the conquest and colonization of the territories, the Zionist project is still a work-in-progress.

Hence, whatever rage someone may feel with Israel's founding - which does NOT have anything to do with the right of Zionists to have nationalist aspirations - is precisely linked to HOW they went about it and the consequences of that nationalism for the OTHER PEOPLE around them - the Palestinians. The ethnic cleansing of 800K Palestinians in 1948. This ethnic cleansing began BEFORE the war had began.

And there is a rich history of Mandate Palestine, and the Zionist movement, and the all the tensions and sort of train-wreck that no one could stop (but knew was coming; i.e., Palestinians seeing all this land around them being bought up and suddenly realizing that this other group of people intended to carve out a State amongst them).

This is still happening, so 1948 will never be dismissed as simply ancient history.

Now, all you could muster since then is the intellectual equivalent of 'you mad' - which is why I kept calling you a fucking idiot. You're a fucking idiot and a troll.

Solanis couldn't even TALK about this issue. So we had to deal with 6 pages of a bullshit. An ACADEMIC at best, discussion of antisemitism. That's putting it generously. There is a reason why Yale recently disbanded it's antisemitism studies program.

LACK of interest and intellectual fraud.

ANYWAYS, I'm going to tune you out because you're clearly a pissant troll.

BACK TO POSTING IN HUGE FONT

PS: LOL@Plow coming in late, not having a rebuttal and resorting to posting some dumbass YouTube video. Get the fuck out of these threads, ignoramus. You have no idea what you're talking about. At least Wiki the conflict.

I understand Plow. You make no sense, suffer from an industrial dose of Dunning-Kruger and are only deserving of derision. Keep up the paranoia. ZIONIST POWER!
(aside: I urge you, please, leave the latin language alone. You'll just butcher it like your native language. PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!)

Newfag? Really?

lol...
Just sayin.

Postcount/joindate/whatever is srs business.

[Elvis]

I never said you were a Zionist - only that you were a consummate douchebag and moron.

[archibaldcrane]

Aren't Zionists a huge problem in the I/P conflict though Ashmada? Without them, level-headed people would realize, for example, that the settlements are modern-day colonialism and should be abandoned.

[Ashmada]

Of course, they are problematic. Doesn't justify the moron seeing them everywhere.

Any bona fide zionists around here? SHOW OF HANDS TIEM!

[archibaldcrane]

Personally I know plenty of Jews who consider Israel as a state "by jews, for jews" to be a good and necessary thing...so I definitely know some Zionists.

[Ashmada]

/palm. "Here"=on BG. In this thread.

Huge difference between denunciating the evils of militant zionism and accusing people left and right to suscribe to the idea. I thought you realised that.

[Elvis]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...izers-1.370434

[...]Israel claims that flotilla passengers have stockpiled chemicals and flamethrowers on the ships for use against Israeli forces dispatched to intercept them[...]

DAMN, I can't wait for the made-for-TV movie.

Introducing the newest member of the flotilla:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Qz7jdGNtRS...ire2145vt2.jpg

[archibaldcrane]

Of course, they are problematic. Doesn't justify the moron seeing them everywhere.

Any bona fide zionists around here? SHOW OF HANDS TIEM!

No notable Zionists here...These kind of threads are just to bring awareness. No debate really happens. Not enough people know and/or are interested.

.

[Ashmada]

That's where you were going?

Shit, I thought you were trying to re-rail, not still defending your protégé.


But yeah, lulz. Guess he's not very consistent:

i couldn't care less if you debate *me*, the point is that you're too ignorant to say ANYTHING other than 'blah blah antisemite wah wah i have a personal stake in this issue baw baw
anytime a Zio calls someone an antisemite, they should wear it like a badge of honor. that label is devoid of meaning in this conflict

+other instances, too lazy to fish up right now.

[tyven]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...izers-1.370434



DAMN, I can't wait for the made-for-TV movie.

Introducing the newest member of the flotilla:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Qz7jdGNtRS...ire2145vt2.jpg

you are gonna be REALLY embarrassed when this actually happens.

[archibaldcrane]

this is why I refuse to engage in "debates" about israel on here, I'll only post stories from the front lines of jewdom

Not sure if serious, but if serious, zio.

I'd hardly consider elvis my protege, he knows and cares about this stuff more than I ever will.

[Ashmada]

After those PMs, you're still only trying to SAFE FACE for him? Am disappoint.

Google-fu aside, he did make it all too obvious from what angle he cared about "all this".

[archibaldcrane]

Since you and Solanis don't seem to want to ...make any actual points or demonstrate an angle other than "hey there's an easy to antagonize guy on the internet, GET 'EM!" his angle is the only one represented here.

Elvis hasn't exactly embarrassed himself here, his arguments are substantive and rational.

[Demosthenes11]

Since you and Solanis don't seem to want to ...make any actual points or demonstrate an angle other than "hey there's an easy to antagonize guy on the internet, GET 'EM!" his angle is the only one represented here.

Elvis hasn't exactly embarrassed himself here, his arguments are substantive and rational.

except the big text. he should knock that shit off

[archibaldcrane]

except the big text. he should knock that shit off

fo sho, Vajra isn't a good look on anyone.

[Ashmada]

Since you and Solanis don't seem to want to ...make any actual points or demonstrate an angle other than "hey there's an easy to antagonize guy on the internet, GET 'EM!" his angle is the only one represented here.

Poor form to lump together people.
You're the one going for easy antagonism, here.
Pointing out flaws!=an attack. He perceived it that way, overreacted, assumed all kinds of things and started name-calling. I doubt you'd defend that behaviour from anyone else.

I guess I've been much too candid, I'd assumed you wanted a re-rail, not to white knight some more.

Elvis hasn't exactly embarrassed himself here, his arguments are substantive and rational.

Logical fallacies, the height of rationality. We'd made progress! You had admitted this wouldn't happen in another thread! Come on, let's not throw that progress away.

[Demosthenes11]

i dont think people understand what invalidates arguments. someone making an argument, and then adding "you zionist" at the end does not invalidate the argument and is not a straw man