Second aid flotila bound for Gaza leaving this week

[archibaldcrane]

You're the one going for easy antagonism, here.

holy shit lol

i'm out

[Ashmada]

Very nice. Insult and leave when confronted about it.

[solanis]

Not sure if serious, but if serious, zio.

I'd hardly consider elvis my protege, he knows and cares about this stuff more than I ever will.

my comment was pretty obviously glib. I'm not a zionist, I'm israeli. unlike anyone else in this thread rofl

[Dimmauk]

just want to point out not one person has actually rebutted anything elvis or kuya really posted. It was all:

a) "that's sensationalist. the end."
b) "That's anti-semetic. the end."
c) "you're dumb. the end."

you guys really showing them

You know we are talking about a Flotilla that hasnt even fucking left yet right? Just alot of bullshit.

[Cleveland_7795]

They are peace activists. No quotations needed.



None of these examples of the supposed high-life in Gaza invalidate the truth of the humanitarian crisis.

When you judge the living conditions of 1.5 million people - you do not simply show a picture or a video of a couple of hotels or a nice photo of ripe fruit and vegetables in a market AND then conclude: see, no crisis.

You conduct a study. You find any systematic evidence of widespread WHATEVER.

Then you come to a conclusion. That is how these reports by NGOs are made.

It can be true that there is a nice hotel in Gaza - but that nice hotel does not house, feed, clothe, etc. 1.5 million people.

And to post that GARBAGE and arrive at the conclusion that it's all not as bad as the UN, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, etc. say it is - really makes you look like a prick.

Since you are indeed a prick, it's not too shocking.

Once again though, none of that undermines the thorough research done on Gaza and the living conditions of the people living there.

If you can produce a study that says otherwise and deals with how the population as a whole is living and functioning under siege - then more power to you.

Until then, all you have are isolated examples that have no bearing on the bigger picture.

Typical ad hominem attack. You certainly are predictable.

UN, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch - all pawns of the OIC. The only bigger pawns are the Palestinians.

You, and your Antisemitic Palestinian loving ilk love to compare what is going on to Gaza to the holocaust. I was merely pointing out how full of shit you really are.

Show me 1 example of any luxury in Auschwitz or Dachau, and you can continue your comparison.

And while you are at it: Since you LOVE to justify the murderous behavior of the Palestinians by saying it is a response to Israel's aggression and policies...please justify the 1923 Hebron Massacre.

Let me guess...this was 25 year a pre-emptize response to Israel's future aggression and policy.

I am sure also Israel's fault that the grand mufti of Jerusalem aided in planning/executing the "Final Solution." Something the Palestinians, OIC, and you, are deeply saddened was not 100% successful.

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.c...ter-Berlin.jpg


Just come clean. It's not about land...its Jews. You piss and moan about the right of return for the 600k Palestinians who left their homes when Israel is founded, saying this is a basic human right. But, you never say a fucking peep about the close to 1 million Jews expelled from Syria, Iran, Iraq, et al, in response the founding of Israel at the same time. SO this right, and all human rights, don't apply to Jews in your circle it seems. Speaking of these refugees....wtf happened to them. Oh yeah, they were absorbed into Israel. Funny, even the most adamant Israel haters don't give a fuck about the Palestinians.

You sir, are the prick. A Jew hating one.

[Ashmada]

Edit: that was for Dimmauk.

Pretty sure he was trolling.
No side have made any point. There isn't even any side. There isn't even any clear debate.
All that's been talked about is form, not content.

There could be speculation about the various results of the flotilla, or a particularly suicidal and/or oblivious individual could try to defend Israel's "blockade and censorship" package deal or various other avenues, but there hasn't been. And the slinging match has stopped being fun for a while. So, yeah...

There's nothing to rebuke.

[Kuya]

Typical ad hominem attack. You certainly are predictable.

UN, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch - all pawns of the OIC. The only bigger pawns are the Palestinians.

You, and your Antisemitic Palestinian loving ilk love to compare what is going on to Gaza to the holocaust. I was merely pointing out how full of shit you really are.

Show me 1 example of any luxury in Auschwitz or Dachau, and you can continue your comparison.

And while you are at it: Since you LOVE to justify the murderous behavior of the Palestinians by saying it is a response to Israel's aggression and policies...please justify the 1923 Hebron Massacre.

Let me guess...this was 25 year a pre-emptize response to Israel's future aggression and policy.

I am sure also Israel's fault that the grand mufti of Jerusalem aided in planning/executing the "Final Solution." Something the Palestinians, OIC, and you, are deeply saddened was not 100% successful.

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.c...ter-Berlin.jpg


Just come clean. It's not about land...its Jews. You piss and moan about the right of return for the 600k Palestinians who left their homes when Israel is founded, saying this is a basic human right. But, you never say a fucking peep about the close to 1 million Jews expelled from Syria, Iran, Iraq, et al, in response the founding of Israel at the same time. SO this right, and all human rights, don't apply to Jews in your circle it seems. Speaking of these refugees....wtf happened to them. Oh yeah, they were absorbed into Israel. Funny, even the most adamant Israel haters don't give a fuck about the Palestinians.

You sir, are the prick. A Jew hating one.

I've never, ever heard that the UN, Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch are some pawns of some OIC. It sounds like some major conspiracy theory bull, so since you want to make a controversial statement like that, why don't you prove it first?

And nobody has to justify anything, but when zionists and israel defenders point toward palestinian aggression as some sort of substantive proof of their wild nature (and therefore, why israeli occupation and ethnic cleansing, by which i mean moving them out of what used to be their homes, is somehow justified), without any context, then a response is necessary, and that response is by pointing out the continued oppression that palestinians suffer under israel. Furthermore, the expulsion of palestinians during israel's founding, and continued denial of right of return as all refugees running from war are entitled is but more facts providing context for palestinian discontent. One does not even have to mention that most palestinians do not engage in violence, since that is obvious and a given, but for whatever reason, it's alright for you to paint all palestinians as savages, but it's never alright to paint all israelis as wanting the continued expulsion of palestinians from Jerusalem and the West Bank. Well that's because it's a fact; lots of israelis and jews think that what the zionists are doing is monstrous, as do plenty of palestinians disagree with outright violence that is not meant for defense.

The alleged reason for why the hebron massacre of 1923 happened, which you seemed to have not mentioned, is, according to wikipedia:

The Hebron massacre refers to the killing of sixty-seven Jews on 23 and 24 August 1929 in Hebron, then part of the British Mandate of Palestine, by Arabs incited to violence by rumors that Jews were massacring Arabs[1] in Jerusalem and seizing control of Muslim holy places. This massacre, together with that of Safed, sent shock waves through Jewish communities in Palestine and across the world.'

67 Jews were killed and Jewish homes and synagogues were ransacked; nineteen local Arab families saved 435 Jews by hiding them in their houses at great risk to themselves.[2][3] The survivors were evacuated from Hebron by the British authorities. Many returned in 1931, but almost all left again during 1936–1939.[4] It also led to the re-organization and development of the Jewish paramilitary organization, the Haganah, which later became the nucleus of the Israel Defense Forces.

I don't know if the grand mufti had anything to do with the nazis, but i would like to know why you think that has any inherence on the rest of the palestinians, because it sounds like you want us to think that all palestinians were in on the holocaust and still are, so why you don't you justify that. And lastly, this thread is about the israel/palestine issue, if you are criticizing israel, you are not forced to criticize every single bad state in the world all in the same breathe. What you're asking for is a red herring. If jews were expelled from iraq or whatever, then they naturally also have a right to return to their homes, not once did elvis ever imply the contrary, but that is what you wanted to imply. The right of return is a matter of law and morality and it applies to everyone, jew or muslim. You're driving a false wedge.

Your entire post has basically been dishonest, from not mentioning details about hebron, to talking about the expulsion of jews from other states as if elvis agreed with that, to talking about the grand mufti as if his actions equate to the actions of most palestinians back then or now, to making spurious claims about the UN at al without any shred of evidence. You've basically done the tour de force of how to be shady in a discussion about palestine/israel.

[thetruepandagod]

This has been one of the worst threads i have ever read. I feel like i could have seen the same replies i see in this thread if i walked down to hollywood and just started screaming kyke until the cops came.

[Elvis]

Typical ad hominem attack. You certainly are predictable.

UN, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch - all pawns of the OIC. The only bigger pawns are the Palestinians.

You, and your Antisemitic Palestinian loving ilk love to compare what is going on to Gaza to the holocaust.

Look tampon, I never compared Gaza to the Holocaust. Nor do I give a shit about such comparisons.

The world is full of tragedies that are bad enough. We don't have to measure suffering in relative terms to the Holocaust. Not only is that fucking stupid (because people suffer plenty in all sorts of conflicts and in different ways that does not entail genocide) but it's morally repugnant and self-centered.

Not just self-centered but pathologically narcissistic. Get over yourself or see a fucking psychiatrist.

I was merely pointing out how full of shit you really are.

You haven't proven anything other than the fact that you're an ignorant twat.

As I said, the difference between posting a picture of a hotel in Gaza and a study consisting of interviews, surveys, field research, etc. should be obvious.

Your pictures do not undermine such studies. You have absolutely no evidence whatsoever to prove that those pictures of hotels represent the experience of the overwhelming majority of Gazan residents.

None. Get used to it.

Show me 1 example of any luxury in Auschwitz or Dachau, and you can continue your comparison.

What comparison, dumbass? Quote me. Now or anytime I've posted on this issue on BG, where I said the conditions in Gaza were comparable to the Holocaust.

Until then, shut your ignorant mouth.

And while you are at it: Since you LOVE to justify the murderous behavior of the Palestinians by saying it is a response to Israel's aggression and policies...please justify the 1923 Hebron Massacre.

I don't have to justify the so-called 'murderous' behavior of the Palestinian people because no such behavior exists. The Palestinian people represents a collective. They are not a monolith. They are not defined by the terrorism carried out by Hamas or the PLO.

I've never justified terrorism.

Your conclusion that an entire people are collectively 'murderous' is idiotic beyond belief and racist. You're worthless.

Let me guess...this was 25 year a pre-emptize response to Israel's future aggression and policy.

I am sure also Israel's fault that the grand mufti of Jerusalem aided in planning/executing the "Final Solution." Something the Palestinians, OIC, and you, are deeply saddened was not 100% successful.

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.c...ter-Berlin.jpg

The Palestinian people were NEVER represented by the Mufti. You overstate his importance.

However, the pertinent issue is the Mufti and his relationship with the Palestinian people. Did he represent them? Of course not.

By 1930, many Palestinian nationalists viewed the Mufti and the Supreme Muslim Cuncil as a group who had misused their religion for partisan political purposes; who had brought no benefit to the country; and whose policies would only lead to expulsion and destruction of the country, e.g. Mohammad Tawil and Sheikh As'ad al Shuqayri of Acre, the father of PLO founder and chairman Ahmad Shuqayri, wrote articles in support of cooperation with the Zionist Organization. He was widely known for his opposition to the nationalist movement and involvement in land sales. He did not see the Jerusalem Mufti as a serious religious figure.

In mid-1935 the Mayor of Jerusalem, Dr. Mustafa al Khalidi, told his deputy Daniel Oster "We must recognize facts. The Jews have entered the country, become citizens, have become Palestinians, and they cannot be thrown into the sea. Likewise, they have bought land and received deeds in exchange for money and we must recognize them. There is no point in closing our eyes about such clear things." See Hillel Cohen, "Army of Shadows: Palestinian Collaboration with Zionism, 1917-1948", University of California Press, 2008, pages 84-85.

[A lot of this is old stuff from Mondoweiss, since the same idiot Zionist trolls spew the same idiot racist nonsense]

In 1937 the US Consul General at Jerusalem told the State Department that the Mufti refused the principle of partition and declined to consider it. He said the Emir Abdullah of Transjordan urged acceptance on the ground that realities must be faced. The Consul also noted that Nashashibi was willing to negotiate for favorable modifications.

The UN Yearbook for 1946-47 says that during the deliberations on Palestine many members of the United Nations questioned the status of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC) and the Jewish Agency. They expressed the view that only States should be heard in the General Assembly as the Charter had not provided for hearing "non-governmental organizations" (NGOs) there. The Jewish Agency had a special status under the terms of the mandate, but the AHC did not. According to the Yearbook: "The Egyptian representative explained, in reply to various statements, that the Arab States did not represent the Palestinian Arab population."

Ezra Danin worked in various capacities in the Jewish Agency and the Arab department, "Sherut Yediot", the "Information Service" of the Haganah. In January of 1948, Danin wrote "I believe the majority of the Palestinian masses accept the partition as a fiat accompli and do not believe it possible to overcome or reject it." See Document 90, page 128 "Political and Diplomatic Documents Central Zionist Archives/Israel State Archives, December 1947- May 1948, Jerusalem, 1979.

There was a nine year hiatus after the British mandatory authorities outlawed the Arab Higher Committee. It was reestablished by the Arab League, not by the Palestinian people. In February of 1948, the Arab League decided not to recognize the AHC as the representative of the Palestinian people. Thereafter, all of the Leagues' affairs were handled through its own Palestine Council, not through the Mufti or the AHC. See Issa Khalaf, Politics in Palestine: Arab factionalism and social disintegration, 1939-1948, University of New York Press, 1991, ISBN 0-7914-0708-X, page 290.

David Ben-Gurion advised Moshe Sharett about the public sentiment of the Palestinians: "They, the decisive majority of them do not want to fight us." See Ben Gurion to Sharett, March 14, 1948, Document 274, on page 460 of "Political and Diplomatic Documents Central Zionist Archives/Israel State Archives, December 1947- May 1948, Jerusalem, 1979.

Folke Bernadotte's diary said the Mufti had no credibility with Palestinians on account of his unrealistic predictions regarding the defeat of the Jewish militias. Bernadotte said "It would seem as though in existing circumstances most of the Palestinian Arabs would be quite content to be incorporated in Transjordan." see Folke Bernadotte, "To Jerusalem", Hodder and Stoughton, 1951, pages 112-13.

The rulers of the overwhelming majority of the territory of the former Palestine mandate included the Hashemites, Nashashibis, and other groups who had accepted the principle of partition. Secretary of State Marshall documented Moshe Shertok's discussion of a cable that he received which outlined a modus vivendi agreement between the Haganah and Col. Desmond Goldie, assistant to Brigadier Glubb commander of the Arab Legion to coordinate their operations and avoid clashes. (Source: transcript is cited as "2. State of ISRAEL Archive, 130.11/2513/2")

The Jewish Agency and provisional government of Israel talked about acceptance, but when the deadlines came to implement the plan for economic union; the plan for the protection of minorities; and the plan for the Corpus Separatum they always rejected resolution 181(II) in actual practice. Rabbi Hillel Silver only "accepted" the plan of partition on a conditional basis - subject to "further discussions of the constitutional and territorial provisions".

64 years later WE ARE STILL listening to Zionist officials shreying about the status of Jerusalem and the impossibility of granting Arabs constitutional equality. The representative of the AHC NGO was in no official position to reject the plan on behalf of the Palestinians, and suggested that the United Nations consult the wishes of the owners of the country. FYI both Hamas and the Israeli government express similar sentiments today. Any final settlement will be subject to national plebiscites. For the remarks of the Jewish Agency and AHC spokesmen see the 1947 FRUS, Near East and Africa, Volume V, page 1165.

The Mufti did not enjoy much popular support and all his efforts to organize a popular resistance to the Partition Resolution were unsuccessful. According to Ian Bickerton, Carla Klausner, "A Concise History of the Arab-Israeli Conflict", 4th Edition, Prentice Hall, 2004, few Palestinians joined the Arab Liberation Army and many Palestinians favored partition and indicated a willingness to live alongside a Jewish state (page 88).

Ben-Gurion rebuffed the various efforts of more pragmatic Palestinian Arabs to reach a modus vivendi since it was his "belief ... that Zionist expansionism would be better served by leaving the leadership of the Palestinians in the hands of the extremist Mufti than in the hands of a 'moderate' opposition. 'Rely on the Mufti' became his motto."

Blocked by Zionist policy from officially expressing their opposition to war, the Palestinian Arabs arranged "non-aggression" pacts with their Jewish neighbors. The relatively few who did take up arms did so primarily to defend themselves against feared attacks by the Jews. See the review of Simha Flapan's The Birth of Israel: Myths and Realities.

I think I've made my point. The rest of your post is full of a hilarious hodge-podge of Zionist hasbara memes. Not worth answering. Try harder.

(BTW, in case you're too stupid to follow the conversation - I bring up the AHC because it was established by the Mufti.)

[Demosthenes11]

seriously elvis, your big font makes you look crazy, no matter what you are saying. ::vajra::

[Elvis]

I do it to stress important points of my wall of text.

[Demosthenes11]

bold, don't make bigger

[Cleveland_7795]

Let see....

Any source that pushes a pro-Palestinian/Anti-Israel agenda is credible and unbiased.

Any source reporting the opposite is clearly in the control of Zionists, and therefore is biased and uncredible.

Do I have that right?

Any view/fact that does not agree with your views of the Israeli/Palestinian, you label as work of Zionists, yet everyone else are the conspiracy theorists?

For every source saying the flotilla is clearly peaceful and with good intentions, I can produce one that says its not. You will label those as zionist propaganda (with no proof).

For every source saying their is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, I can produce one that says there isn't. You will label those as zionist propaganda (with no proof).

I guess I should expect no less from BG, where Al Jazeera is hailed as unbiased.

[Kuya]

Now he's resorting to relativism. Wonderful.

[Elvis]

Let see....

Any source that pushes a pro-Palestinian/Anti-Israel agenda is credible and unbiased.

Any source reporting the opposite is clearly in the control of Zionists, and therefore is biased and uncredible.

Do I have that right?

Any view/fact that does not agree with your views of the Israeli/Palestinian, you label as work of Zionists, yet everyone else are the conspiracy theorists?

For every source saying the flotilla is clearly peaceful and with good intentions, I can produce one that says its not. You will label those as zionist propaganda (with no proof).

For every source saying their is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, I can produce one that says there isn't. You will label those as zionist propaganda (with no proof).

I guess I should expect no less from BG, where Al Jazeera is hailed as unbiased.

Translation: I lost. Time to bow out, but not before I whine.

You're a racist douche. The Mufti did not represent the Palestinian people - as you claim. Furthermore, he was not nearly as influential as you claim to be. The guy was seen as a useful idiot by Zionist leadership. The Palestinians didn't care for him, as noted by various British officials in Mandate Palestine. Etc. etc. etc. etc.

I'm sure you can find an article is saying up is down too. Or that the world is flat.

You have no sources to support the assertion that there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza. NONE. All you have are disgusting articles that lampoon the situation in Gaza by constantly referring to pictures of plentiful food or those hotels - as if it is indicative of the general population's daily life.

There is a documentary record on this issue. There are cables from the US State Dept. that show that Israel intends to keep Gazans on the brink of humanitarian crisis. At the lowest quality of life before collapse. So on and so on.

You have nothing. No studies. No detailed analysis. Only 'look a hotel! Pals must be lying! all the NGOs in the world must be antisemitic!' - compelling and rich.

The end.

[Day]

This thread sucked after Kuya stopped getting trolled by Plow once again.

[Dimmauk]

Now he's resorting to relativism. Wonderful.

Arent you like a Pro at that?

[Cleveland_7795]

You have no sources to support the assertion that there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza. NONE. All you have are disgusting articles that lampoon the situation in Gaza by constantly referring to pictures of plentiful food or those hotels - as if it is indicative of the general population's daily life.
The end.

Racist? Hardly. The virulent Jew hater here is you.

You have no sources to support the assertion that there is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. NONE. All you have are disgusting articles/falsified reports that exaggerate the situation in Gaza by constantly referring to pictures of worst part of town or a single crumbled building. - as if it is indicative of the general population's daily life.

Israel did ethnically cleanse Gaza in 2005....of Jews. They even left behind greenhouses for the Palestinians help them build up Gaza...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...-mideast_x.htm

They looted and destroyed them. If there is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza (Infant mortality rate (@17), which is only slightly higher than that of Washington DC (@14), number of starvation deaths (0), population growth (3.7%), indicate otherwise) it is of their own choosing.

How many Palestinians does it take to change a light bulb? 0. They will just sit in the dark and blame Israel.

[Kuya]

lol

[quannum]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

In case you are redeemable...Israel heavily blockades any imports into Palestine, everything has to go through checkpoints and even many basic building materials (like you'd need to build a mall) are seized. Their lives and "freedoms" are basically held at the whim of the IDF. They can't just say "oh ya can ya ship 600 bags of concrete to this address in Gaza, kthx"

where did the 600 bags of concrete come from?