Second aid flotila bound for Gaza leaving this week

[Elvis]

It doesn't matter what happens with respect to antisemitism and the taboo associated with it on BG. In real life, in our political culture - we are terrified of being thought of as racist or bigoted.

Every single identity has political capital. If you want to see how much capital Arab or Islamic identity has, look at representations of them in Hollywood over the century.

Our country is philo-semitic if anything, and antisemitism is a big no-no. This accusation is used as a bludgeon to silence critics of Israel. See: Jimmy Carter and his book 'Peace not Apartheid.' What was the reaction like to the publication of that book, from Washington regulars? From the media? From mainstream Jewish intellectuals?

Some people can take that kind of heat and some can't. The accusation has been used to get professors denied tenure. It's been used to stop books from being published (See: Joel Kovel, 'Overcoming Zionism'). Etc.

BG is not an accurate microcosm for the political culture of the United States.

[Elvis]

BTW, to add to my earlier post ON antisemitism - in the UK, the largest trade union for academics REJECTED the 'working definition' of antisemitism proposed by the EUMC.

http://www.jpost.com/International/A...ID=223094&R=R1

Britain’s largest trade union for academics has voted to disassociate itself from the EU working definition of anti-Semitism, leading to accusations it is institutionally racist.

The University College Union (UCU) passed the resolution at its annual conference in Harrogate in Yorkshire on Monday, claiming that the European Union Monitoring Center on Racism and Xenophobia definition stifles debate and is used to deflect criticism of Israel.

[solanis]

the good irony here is, to prove they have a bias, you need to construct an argument on why they are wrong which should subsequently show their bias.

wrong again! you can have correct arguments but still be negatively or positively biased towards the subject at hand. in examples where there is no clear and definite right and wrong, such as israel, biases shape which side you choose to sit on and how you choose to view different aspects of the topic. identifying problematic biases in your thought process can help you reach a more rational conclusion than one poisoned by privilege. it's a constructive thing for everyone on both sides to consider.

any other mindless arguments?

people who use social equality arguments to silence people are also misbehaving elvis, and no one is saying they aren't. fear of the oppressed group vocalizing their situation in an abusive way shouldn't stop you from doing the right thing yourself and examining your own biases. stop throwing stones at that straw man, he's going to retaliate!

[Elvis]

If you ask me whether antisemitism exists. I'll say yes, it does. If you could point out where I am being antisemitic in my comments, then we might make some progress.

[tyven]

i feel like the palestines should feel lucky that they arent dealing with the syria

[solanis]

anytime a Zio calls someone an antisemite, they should wear it like a badge of honor. that label is devoid of meaning in this conflict

this might be a really good place to start

[Elvis]

Solanis, I didn't say anything antisemitic there. If it wasn't clear, my point there is that the label should be used as a badge of honor when it's thrown around so flippantly by exasperated Zionists.

Yes, I feel like I'm doing something right when the only thing someone can come up with as a counter is 'You're a racist!'

I've said this earlier: if I'm both an idiot (as you said) and antisemitic, then how hard is it to take apart my posts on this conflict?

Or maybe you feel you've already done that!

[Ashmada]

I've said this earlier: if I'm both an idiot (as you said) and antisemitic, then how hard is it to take apart my posts on this conflict?

Just because you're not willing to admit it doesn't mean your points are any less laughable.

Yes, I feel like I'm doing something right when the only thing someone can come up with as a counter is 'You're a racist!'

I no rite? Them negroids do it all the time when I throw chicken wings at them! It's hilarious!

[Elvis]

Just because you're not willing to admit it doesn't mean your points are any less laughable.

I no rite? Them negroids do it all the time when I throw chicken wings at them! It's hilarious!

I have nothing to 'admit' to. My points are backed up by the scholarly record (main reply to Plow's nonsense = Post 1: http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/105...=1#post4675092 / Post 2: http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/105...=1#post4675095)

If you have an issue with it, then let me know specifically what it is.

I've already answered you.

@last bolded part

This is why the antisemitism label is a waste of time. No where in any comment I've made here (or on Mondoweiss) regarding this issue, have I made such fucking stupid racist comments. You're talking out of your ass.

[solanis]

Solanis, I didn't say anything antisemitic there. If it wasn't clear, my point there is that the label should be used as a badge of honor when it's thrown around so flippantly by exasperated Zionists.

Yes, I feel like I'm doing something right when the only thing someone can come up with as a counter is 'You're a racist!'

I've said this earlier: if I'm both an idiot (as you said) and antisemitic, then how hard is it to take apart my posts on this conflict?

Or maybe you feel you've already done that!

you really think being called out on anti-semitic bias is a badge of honor in any circumstance? you enjoy refusing to consider what might very well be truth in their words? have you ever considered that they might be right, that you do have an anti-semitic bias? you think you're doing something right when your rhetoric and phrasing is so abusive that the people you're speaking to feel they can't accept what you said, regardless of its validity? do you think the goal here is to win internet fights, or to develop a constructive and fair public consensus on the situation?

since you asked for specifics, here are things you should think about to determine your own bias. how do you feel about jewish people? do you think they are more likely to cheat you than another group? do you think jews should have their own state? do you think jews are marginalized by society, or that their economic success excuses social maginalization? do you associate judaism with violence against arabs? why do you care so much about an issue that does not involve you? there aren't right or wrong answers to any of these (aside from ridiculous radical hate speech) but they form a good starting point to determining your actual anti-semitism. I'm not interested in your answers, this is an exercise for you alone. after that, considering the benefits you receive as a privileged person (i.e., not jewish) is a good idea too for some empathetic perspective. none of this is particularly useful if you aren't actually interested in examining your own mindset.

it is absurd to argue that the amount of furious opposition israel faces isn't motivated in part by anti-semitism, and a desire to zero in on those evil jews. it's much more pronounced with arab nations of course, who openly call for the blood of the jews and attack israel on jewish holy days.

[Elvis]

you really think being called out on anti-semitic bias is a badge of honor in any circumstance?

My original quote:

i couldn't care less if you debate *me*, the point is that you're too ignorant to say ANYTHING other than 'blah blah antisemite wah wah i have a personal stake in this issue baw baw'

anytime a Zio calls someone an antisemite, they should wear it like a badge of honor. that label is devoid of meaning in this conflict

My clarification which was not necessary to anyone with elementary-level reading comprehension:

Solanis, I didn't say anything antisemitic there. If it wasn't clear, my point there is that the label should be used as a badge of honor when it's thrown around so flippantly by exasperated Zionists.

Yes, I feel like I'm doing something right when the only thing someone can come up with as a counter is 'You're a racist!'

I've said this earlier: if I'm both an idiot (as you said) and antisemitic, then how hard is it to take apart my posts on this conflict?

Or maybe you feel you've already done that!

How do you feel about jewish people? do you think they are more likely to cheat you than another group? do you think jews should have their own state? do you think jews are marginalized by society, or that their economic success excuses social maginalization? do you associate judaism with violence against arabs? why do you care so much about an issue that does not involve you? there aren't right or wrong answers to any of these (aside from ridiculous radical hate speech) but they form a good starting point to determining your actual anti-semitism. I'm not interested in your answers, this is an exercise for you alone. after that, considering the benefits you receive as a privileged person (i.e., not jewish) is a good idea too for some empathetic perspective. none of this is particularly useful if you aren't actually interested in examining your own mindset.

And this is what I wanted from you in the beginning.

When the fuck did I ever talk about Jews and money?

Most of what you wrote is a red herring. I only talk about Zionism and within THAT context, Jewish identity and even then my comments on the latter are sparse. You can look up my comment history, and type in the necessary keywords. Figure it out.

You have no evidence.

What a fucking huge waste of time. We're on page-whatever-the-fuck and THIS is all you had.

EDIT:

And I told you why I sympathize with the Palestinians. And being American is ENOUGH reason to care.

Israel would not be able to flaunt international law as it does without the support of the United States. And even then, I could be from Neverneverland and still be interested in this issue. Why not? It's interesting! There is no other 'Western' (or self-proclaimed 'Western') nation actively engaging in colonialism.

[Ashmada]

I have nothing to 'admit' to. My points are backed up by the scholarly record. If you have an issue with it, then let me know specifically what it is.

Scholarly record backing up strawmen and ad hominem? XD.

I've not accused you of antisemitism (yet), btw. I was just laughing at the quote.

[Elvis]

Scholarly record backing up strawmen and ad hominem? XD.

I've not accused you of antisemitism (yet), btw. I was just laughing at the quote.

Look, dingleberry, this is what you said:

You don't. But we're in 2011, Captain Hindsight.
Pointing out errors of the past doesn't help solve the present situation one iota.
More than 50 years have passed, maybe we could move on from the implications that Israeli have no right to be there?
What do you propose? Moving them elsewhere? Exterminating them down to the last one?
If not, why bring it up at all?

Bolded/Italics/Underlined, so even someone as stupid as you can comprehend the following:

Israel is still colonizing Palestinian land. Israel is still kicking Palestinians off their land and out of their homes.

It's not ancient history. It's today.

[solanis]

My original quote:



My clarification which was not necessary to anyone with elementary-level reading comprehension:





And this is what I wanted from you in the beginning.

When the fuck did I ever talk about Jews and money?

Most of what you wrote is a red herring. I only talk about Zionism and within THAT context, Jewish identity and even then my comments on the latter are sparse. You can look up my comment history, and type in the necessary keywords. Figure it out.

You have no evidence.

What a fucking huge waste of time. We're on page-whatever-the-fuck and THIS is all you had.

EDIT:

And I told you why I sympathize with the Palestinians. And being American is ENOUGH reason to care.

Israel would not be able to flaunt international law as it does without the support of the United States. And even then, I could be from Neverneverland and still be interested in this issue. Why not? It's interesting! There is no other 'Western' (or self-proclaimed 'Western') nation actively engaging in colonialism.

you're proving why I think you're an idiot. the point is to consider these questions and reveal your internalized bias to yourself so you can re-examine your position with that variable isolated, not to act like a defensive asshole when you don't like some of the questions you need to think about. you're fucking stupid if you can't realize the difference between internalized bias and outlandish vocalized racism. there is a middle ground. if you're too dumb to figure this out, I was right to find it a waste of my time and effort trying to explain this to you, since you've had 0 intention of actually using your brain and thinking the entire time.

[Elvis]

you're proving why I think you're an idiot. the point is to consider these questions and reveal your internalized bias to yourself so you can re-examine your position with that variable isolated, not to act like a defensive asshole when you don't like some of the questions you need to think about. you're fucking stupid if you can't realize the difference between internalized bias and outlandish vocalized racism. there is a middle ground. if you're too dumb to figure this out, I was right to find it a waste of my time and effort trying to explain this to you, since you've had 0 intention of actually using your brain and thinking the entire time.

Internalized bias! Wow, solanis. I didn't know you had a time machine, and could tell I had INTERNALIZED BIAS. On the first page, before any of this shit-flinging began, you called me antisemitic.

NOW, on page 6, you want me to ask myself questions? Do I think Jews love money? HMMM, (internalizing...internalizing) OH SHIT, YOU GOT ME YO

You are asking me to provide an answer for you. My answer is pretty simple: Quote me, where I talk about Jews and money. Or Jews being predisposed to WHATEVER because of their Jewishness.

How fucking hard is that? Find something I've said that clearly shows I am conflating Israel with Jews in general. All Jews.

Internalized bias????

[Ashmada]

Look, dingleberry, this is what you said:



Bolded/Italics/Underlined, so even someone as stupid as you can comprehend the following:

Israel is still colonizing Palestinian land. Israel is still kicking Palestinians off their land and out of their homes.

It's not ancient history. It's today.

I'm starting to believe Elvis is a golem of strawmen and ad hominem. Your (totally justified) insecurities about your intelligence aside, I'm not interested in winning a popularity contest, here.
I'll just keep laughing at you and your propensity of seeing zionists everywhere.



Edit: How cute, you edited to add links to your copypasta posts. I saw it the first time. Doesn't mean the rest of the shit you spew is "backed up by facts", numbskull.
Furthermore, it's irrelevant! I NEVER DENIED ISRAELI EXACTIONS. THE ZIONISTS ARE IN YOUR HEAD. Clear enough?

[Elvis]

I'm starting to believe Elvis is a golem of strawmen and ad hominem. Your (totally justified) insecurities about your intelligence aside, I'm not interested in winning a popularity contest, here.
I'll just keep laughing at you and your propensity of seeing zionists everywhere.

What does *anything* you just said have to do with the quote?

You implied that 50 years (it's been 60+) had 'passed' benignly. That no further expulsions have occurred. I referenced a recent article in Haaretz in which documentation was found showing that Israel had cancelled the residencies of 140,000 Palestinians from 67' to 94'. That's in addition to the expanding settlements and all the rest.

THAT is the reason for my indignation at the claim that 'both sides' are suffering equally.

The logistics speak for themselves. The historical record does as well, and being the dildo that you are, you keep saying I'm strawmanning you when I quoted you directly.

[solanis]

Internalized bias! Wow, solanis. I didn't know you had a time machine, and could tell I had INTERNALIZED BIAS. On the first page, before any of this shit-flinging began, you called me antisemitic.

NOW, on page 6, you want me to ask myself questions? Do I think Jews love money? HMMM, (internalizing...internalizing) OH SHIT, YOU GOT ME YO

You are asking me to provide an answer for you. My answer is pretty simple: Quote me, where I talk about Jews and money. Or Jews being predisposed to WHATEVER because of their Jewishness.

How fucking hard is that? Find something I've said that clearly shows I am conflating Israel with Jews in general. All Jews.

Internalized bias????

I never called you anti-semitic in that post, I was replying to kuya you dumb motherfucker lol

and yes, internalized bias. look it up, since the PMs and multiple pages of trying to explain it to you has flown over your head

ps. ashmada was referring to questions of the legitimacy of the state regarding its inception years and years ago, not the current conflict. are you allergic to reading?

[Ashmada]

What does *anything* you just said have to do with the quote?
You implied that 50 years (it's been 60+) had 'passed' benignly.

Didn't. You keep on assuming, though.

THAT is the reason for my indignation at the claim that 'both sides' are suffering equally.

A claim that only exists in your head.

The logistics speak for themselves. The historical record does as well, and being the dildo that you are, you keep saying I'm strawmanning you when I quoted you directly.

Not my fault you read words that aren't there, moron.

[Elvis]

I never called you anti-semitic in that post, I was replying to kuya you dumb motherfucker lol

and yes, internalized bias. look it up, since the PMs and multiple pages of trying to explain it to you has flown over your head

Nig, please, all you've had to do from page 1 was backup your pseudo-analytical bullshit with some quotes. You ended up saying, that I'd welcome being called antisemitic in every scenario.

Was that the case, liar?

Put those indignant hands together and scroll up. I made it clear as day that when someone has nothing to say, they resort to shouting 'Antisemite!'