Second aid flotila bound for Gaza leaving this week

[archibaldcrane]

Damn, Hamas built a shopping mall for only 1.5 million? That's hella efficient, the Israelis are sitting on some untapped construction resources there.

[Cleveland_7795]

Damn, Hamas built a shopping mall for only 1.5 million? That's hella efficient, the Israelis are sitting on some untapped construction resources there.

And will probably close/destroy it for not being Islamic enough.

[Ashmada]

There is no fire. Just two idiots, solanis the oppressed Israeli scholar of antisemitism, and some newfag hijacking the thread into a discussion on jew hating. Big surprise.

Nice to see you have new tricks.
Strawmen, horrible reading comprehension, bad logic and insults, one comes to expect. It's your style: all bile, no sense.

But joindate arguments? That's new, quite refreshing. And of such cunning! I'm thoroughly stumped by your wit.

Let's see some evidence. I'm sure you've done your homework. OR WAIT, let's spend another 6 pages talking about antisemitism!

6 pages of laughing at your evident hatred of all things jewish is never a waste.

[Kuya]

Elvis, for god's sake do not reply to this guy.

[archibaldcrane]

He PM'ed me to say he was bored. I told him that trolling Elvis isn't good sport, he doesn't really get it so it's not particularly fun. Apparently he disagrees.

[Ashmada]

Cicle-jerking is more fun?

(I PM'd you to ask why the bait, actually. Answer was quite vague)

[archibaldcrane]

I didn't realize you were just straight-trolling at first, was going to actually try to have a real conversation about the topic.

Silly me.

Try not to get too butthurt, and this thread isn't just for circle jerking - the last flotilla was pretty fucking interesting, this one might be as well.

[Plow]

Palestine has been in use just as long as the term Israel. For example, Shemot (Exodus) 13:17 says God did not lead them [by] way of the land of the Philistines. Amos Chapter 9:7 says that the Israelites were brought up from Egypt in the same way that the Philistines and Aram were brought respectively from Caphtor and Kir. Josephus, claimed that the Jews were not a maritime people and that they inhabited the inland hill country, not the coastal plain. The Palestinians had already dispatched a delegation of representatives to Great Britain in February of 1922 that styled themselves as “Arab People of Palestine” and members of the “People of Palestine” . A distinct “Palestinian” identity had been developed long before as a result of the Egyptian siege of 1832 (more below).

Reliable sources, including Avigdor Levy, Elli Kohen, Aryeh Shmuelevitz, and Walter Weiker estimate the number of Jews in all of Syria and Palestine at about 20,000 at the beginning of the 18th century. The names of the Jewish communities implied that they did not consider themselves to be members of the same nationality, i.e. Ashkenazi, Sephardi, Romani, Misrahi, etc. The Ottoman authorities also treated them as members of different ethnic and religious sects, i.e. Surgun, Kendi Gelen, & etc. See for example Avigdor Levy, Jews, Turks, Ottomans: A Shared History, Fifteenth Through the Twentieth Century (Modern Jewish History), Syracuse Univ Pr, 2003. You keep mentioning that some Palestinians migrated into the area. If being an Ashkenazi (German) born in the United States of America doesn’t prevent you from also being a Jewish and Israeli national, then why does it matter where a “Palestinian” or “Arab” national was born? The use of that deceptive narrative by Zionists has been fully discussed in:
*Rosemary E. Shinko, “Discourses of Denial: Silencing the Palestinians, Delegitimizing Their Claims,” Journal of International Affairs 58.1 (2004);
*Baruch Kimmerling, Politicide: Ariel Sharon’s War Against the Palestinians, Verso, 2003;
*Marcelo Svirsky, “The Desire for terra nullius and the Zionist-Palestinian Conflict,” in Paul Patton and Simone Bignall (Eds.) Deleuze and the Postcolonial, Edinburgh University Press 2009.
*Lawrence Davidson, “Historical Ignorance and Popular Perception: the Case of U.S. Perceptions of Palestine, 1917,” Middle East Policy3.2 (1994): pages 125-148;
*Joyce Dalsheim, Settler nationalism, collective memories of violence and the ‘uncanny other’, Social Identities, Volume 10, Issue 2 2004 , pages 151 – 170;

The 19th century British Foreign Office Confidential Prints FO 424 and early 20th century Arab Bureau Papers FO 882 relate that the origins of the Husayni (aka al-Husseini), Khalidi, Nashashibi, ‘Abd al-Hadi, Tuqan families, and the many clans and tribes – including the Beersheba Bedouin – pre-date the first Zionist Aliya and that all of the groups had been settled there for centuries. Most of the inhabitants today can trace their ancestry to one or more of the families named in the 19th century British reports. Hashem died and was buried in Gaza 1300 years ago. His Husayni descendants moved back to the region from Allepo in the 1600s. By the early years of the 18th century the post of Mufti of Jerusalem was held by ‘Abd al-Qadir ibn Karim al-Din Husayni. He died leaving no male heir and the Hanafi mufti-ship passed on to the Jaralla and Alami families. But, ‘Abd al-Qadir’s female descendants retained the family name and their claim to sharifian (i.e. Hashemite) lineage. The notable members of that particular branch have included Yasser Arafat and his uncle, the Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini.

Zionists always mention a poorly-defined region called “Eretz Yisrael”. The Torah suggests that Moses died somewhere in Transjordan because he was not permitted to enter the Promised Land. In fact, Gideon Bigger says that’s why Lloyd George used the Jordan river as the border – because Joshua and the children of Israel crossed it on their way into the land of Israel. Of course, there are other passages in the scriptures which say that all of the land between the River of Egypt and the Euphrates was included in the Promised Land or Eretz Yisrael. Judea was only a small fraction of this “Greater Eretz Yisrael”. It is a little known fact that the Sultan adopted a statute which provided for the immediate and free settlement on the best lands available, for groups of Jews between 200 and 250 families, everywhere in Greater Eretz Yisrael, except for Palestine. In 1882 the American Consul advised a group of Romanian Jews who had requested settlement in the “Pashlik of Palestine” about the ordinance and summed-up by saying “In conclusion, there is nothing to prevent all the Israelites on the earth from settling in Asiatic Turkey. They shall not settle in Palestine-that is the only prohibition. The Zionists never seriously considered settlement in the portions of Eretz Yisrael beyond the boundaries of Palestine.

Joseph Mary Nagle Jeffries, “Palestine: The Reality”, Longmans 1939, reprinted by Hyperion Press, 1975, explains that Palestine was part of the Arab homeland called “Bilad al Arab” or “Arabistan” (page 4). The ‘Arabistan Ordusu’, the provincial Ottoman Army for Arabia, was originally based at Damascus, and was put in charge of Cilicia, Syria (including Lebanon and Palestine), Iraq, and the southern Arabian Peninsula. see Stanford J. Shaw, Ezel Kural Shaw, History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey, Cambridge University Press, 1977, page 85; Caesar E. Farah, The Politics of Interventionism in Ottoman Lebanon, 1830-1861, I.B.Tauris, 2000, page 417. The claim that “Palestine” is only a small unimportant part of Arabia is tantamount to the claim that “Judea” was only small unimportant part of Eretz Israel.

Muhammad Ali was an Albanian mercenary who became the King of Egypt. Palestinian nationalism began long before the first Zionist Aliya when his son, Ibrahim Pasha laid siege to Palestine (in 1832) and encountered massive resistance. King Farouk of Egypt was a descendant of the Albanians and one of Napoleon’s Colonel’s. Most Egyptians consider themselves to be descendants of the ancient Pharaohs who have adopted Arab culture. Egypt lay outside the jurisdiction of the Provincial Army of Arabistan. Egypt was not part of the Arab homeland discussed by the Sharif Hussein and McMahon. It is somewhat ironic then that Egypt and King Farouk assumed the leadership of the newly formed League of Arab States. The Convention of July 1840 offered a grant to Muhammed Ali, during his natural life, of the government of the region described alternately as “Southern Syria” or “Palestine” or the Pashalik of Acre. See Index to the executive documents of the House of Representatives for the second session of the forty-fifth Congress, 1879-’80 page 1019.

EDIT:

Sorry for the wall of text but it is all as lucid as I can make it.

[Ashmada]

Don't speak of butthurt when you fly at the defense of your little Elvis, dear.

Real conversation about these subjects is hard in this place; such was my intention at first as well, but the climate doesn't permit it. Look at how fast anyone pointing the excesses of Elvis' is turned into a fanatical Israel supporter. What you say seems to matter much less than what a certain clique wants you to have said.

[archibaldcrane]

That's the most retarded shit I've seen in any BG thread.

I'd like to point out that this is how you entered the thread. If this is how you go about trying to have a civil conversation, well, yeah it didn't work.

[Demosthenes11]

just want to point out not one person has actually rebutted anything elvis or kuya really posted. It was all:

a) "that's sensationalist. the end."
b) "That's anti-semetic. the end."
c) "you're dumb. the end."

you guys really showing them

[Ashmada]

Well, it was a pretty retarded statement. I CALLZ EM AS I SEEZ EM!

I suppose loaded bait questions are a better way...


This is BG, "this is retarded" is the way to say "your argument is fallacious on several levels" round these parts, and you know it, Archi. I'd actually rather it wasn't, but when in Rome...

[archibaldcrane]

I was just trying to get a baseline as to where you fell on the issue.

You get pissed if Elvis assumes you have a certain stance, and you refuse to answer direct questions about what your stance is.

You're obviously straight-trolling, and have admitted as much. Don't pretend like you've got all this wonderful information trapped up inside and oh no if only those meanies on BG would let you get it out!!

[Demosthenes11]

You're obviously straight-trolling, and have admitted as much. Don't pretend like you've got all this wonderful information trapped up inside and oh no if only those anti-semites on BG would let you get it out!!

FTFY

[Penthesilea]

Damn, Hamas built a shopping mall for only 1.5 million? That's hella efficient, the Israelis are sitting on some untapped construction resources there.

Most of the materials used to build it were smuggled in so they're really only paying for labor.

[Ashmada]

I was just trying to get a baseline as to where you fell on the issue.

You get pissed if Elvis assumes you have a certain stance, and you refuse to answer direct questions about what your stance is.

You're obviously straight-trolling, and have admitted as much. Don't pretend like you've got all this wonderful information trapped up inside and oh no if only those meanies on BG would let you get it out!!

My stance was simply that Elvis' arguments were fallacious.
The fact that not only him but others (not sure if troll on the latest one, will ignore in either case) have tried to paint me a supporter of IDF's brutal excesses is evidence that these threads badly need a villain.
My stance about the conflict should be clear by now, but you're not interested in that.

Bold: please, that didn't even work in the playground, it's beyond childish here.

[quannum]

Most of the materials used to build it were smuggled in so they're really only paying for labor.

wouldn't smuggled materials be more expensive than regular shipping? does smuggled mean stolen too?

also

these threads badly need a villain.

This citythread deserves a better class of villain. And I'm gonna give it to them!

[archibaldcrane]

wouldn't smuggled materials be more expensive than regular shipping?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

In case you are redeemable...Israel heavily blockades any imports into Palestine, everything has to go through checkpoints and even many basic building materials (like you'd need to build a mall) are seized. Their lives and "freedoms" are basically held at the whim of the IDF. They can't just say "oh ya can ya ship 600 bags of concrete to this address in Gaza, kthx"

[Ashmada]

This citythread deserves a better class of villain. And I'm gonna give it to them!

Good luck. (liking your first effort, that was a gem )

MOAR srsly, it's really quite a strange phenomenon. Doesn't happen in other BG threads, just in these. Kuya, in particular, doesn't seem to be the same person in these threads as in the rest.

[archibaldcrane]

Well, to be fair, the I/P issue is probably the most contentious and passionately misinformation-filled topic in...the world right now.