Battle Reform: Auto-Attack (06/30/2011)

[Xcrunner]

No mention of toggling this on/off.

If you're a mage, shit runs up to you, you sleep it and consequently go into 'active mode', you'll just strike it right after because you're in melee range.

It says for mages you actually have to use the attack. Mages don't have auto attack

The abilities Light Shot (Archer), Spirit Dart (Thaumaturge), Phantom Dart (Conjurer), Throw, and Stone Throw will remain available, although their usage will be regulated by a recast timer.

[Amastacia]

It says for mages you actually have to use the attack. Mages don't have auto attack

It also says that they'll have a default melee auto attack where they whack the mob with their weapon.

Which is equally stupid as compared to an ARC punching a mob with its bare fist.

I have some serious curiosity on how the damage on that would work. Punch damage magically tied to bow damage? Punch damage fixed based on rank or some hidden score? I can't see how this system makes sense and doesn't wind up with an auto-attack as useless as Stone Throw.

[Xcrunner]

It also says that they'll have a default melee auto attack where they whack the mob with their weapon.

Which is equally stupid as compared to an ARC punching a mob with its bare fist.

I have some serious curiosity on how the damage on that would work. Punch damage magically tied to bow damage? Punch damage fixed based on rank or some hidden score? I can't see how this system makes sense and doesn't wind up with an auto-attack as useless as Stone Throw.

Didn't notice that lol... so its like ffxi now

[Grey Jorildyn]

So it's like every other mmo now. God.

[Nilheim]

I don't think ARC won't be able to chat while fighting. As they say, there will be weapon delay and iirc the delay for bows in FFXI was very long. My guess is that it's gonna be like that here too, so until they give us a ranged class with a crazy delay weapon it shouldn't be a problem.

[Meko]

Imo, the WORST thing they could do is make auto-attack cause long delays between attacks/abilities. If they do, they can just pull the plug.

[Shuichi]

I'm guessing the delay will be related to the type of weapon in use. But really, I think that there enough abilities to use for each class where players can have a certain rotation of skills, and then various skills they can use once they have enough TP or some other prerequisite has been filled (like evade an attack).

[Lucavi]

Archers using their fists? Bwahahahaaaa! I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, SE. I assumed you'd be at least half-intelligent like the other companies and have archers use daggers or whatever melee weapons they had equipped for the stat bonuses, but once again you show why SE is the special unique flower of the MMORPG genre.

Punch away, deadzone archers; punch away. I can't wait for this game to have some kind of PVP. Archers are going to be the most hilariously useless class in history, when they're typically strong in other games.

@Grey: Not quite. Every other MMO doesn't have archers trying to combofiend a mob with their bare knuckles. Its now more like... every other MMO -2. Can we get a red box around the title for negative stats?

[Hyan]

The dungeons are gonna be fun lool

I wonder what the difference will be when 1.19 rolls. I hope they can avoid a long waiting period between them.

Sidenote, the patch topics aren't coming once a week like they mentioned, good.

[Grey Jorildyn]

I am failing to see why this is a big deal I guess. Archers should shoot and that's that.

As far as rotations are concerned, we won't see them in their truest form for dps classes. Why? Because there are not enough abilities to use that 1) do not require tp but deal damage and 2) those few abilities that do not consume tp to perform effects wear off after a single attack.

We don't even have a sustained attack buff in the game. The only thing that exists in that vein is speed surge and it's restricted to a single weapon type.

[Hyan]

As far as rotations are concerned, we won't see them in their truest form for dps classes. Why? Because there are not enough abilities to use that 1) do not require tp but deal damage and 2) those few abilities that do not consume tp to perform effects wear off after a single attack.

We don't even have a sustained attack buff in the game. The only thing that exists in that vein is speed surge and it's restricted to a single weapon type.

It's too early to say that (as they like to emphasize that they're redoing the skills and spells for classes), but it won't be in 1.18, that's certain.

We know that ws combos are in the making (in place of BR's?), that's a hint of things to come I guess.

[Grey Jorildyn]

I personally would not be surprised to see the guild mark basics like heavy stab etc become some form of auto-attack mode (ie. Stance) that overrides the basics they are removing.

For example as GLA you always "Light Slash" by default but putting one "Heavy Slash" adds 10% delay and 10% accuracy and +5% enmity to attacks. I'd be down for that so long as there is some kinda sustained notification on the action bar that "Heavy Slash" is the active auto-attack mode. And just make them like a toggle and the effect adjustment takes place starting with the next auto-attack.

[Shuichi]

In reference to ARC, they shouldn't even be close enough to use their fists anyway. I don't plan on leveling ARC, but having a little white damage ranged auto-attack would have been nice, but not having it, is not something I view as a serious issue. Maybe I'll give it a try and see how it feels once the patch launches.

[Spider-Dan]

Also, they should've just abolished the alternate basic attacks and refunded guildmarks. So stupid leaving basic attacks around that will still be mashy, since they're frequently moar better.

I'm guessing you are missing the scope of the consequences, here.

Basic attacks no longer take stamina and are regulated only by recast.
Basic attacks (still?) execute near-instantly.
Therefore, every battle starts with: engage, spam every available basic attack, wait for recast, wash rinse repeat.
You have lots of basic attacks (like GLA)? Happy birthday.

You're essentiallly getting free auto-attack while you wait on the cooldown from your basic attacks (unless auto-attack is turned off while waiting on basic attack cooldown?).

___

The thing that concerns me most about this new system is that (so far) Multishot seems to have a high probability of being useless.

[Spider-Dan]

I personally would not be surprised to see the guild mark basics like heavy stab etc become some form of auto-attack mode (ie. Stance) that overrides the basics they are removing.

For example as GLA you always "Light Slash" by default but putting one "Heavy Slash" adds 10% delay and 10% accuracy and +5% enmity to attacks. I'd be down for that so long as there is some kinda sustained notification on the action bar that "Heavy Slash" is the active auto-attack mode. And just make them like a toggle and the effect adjustment takes place starting with the next auto-attack.

That would have been a better solution (and the rather obvious one, it seems to me).

The proposed system seems to be ultra spammy.

[Niiro]

I'm guessing you are missing the scope of the consequences, here.

Basic attacks no longer take stamina and are regulated only by recast.
Basic attacks (still?) execute near-instantly.
Therefore, every battle starts with: engage, spam every available basic attack, wait for recast, wash rinse repeat.
You have lots of basic attacks (like GLA)? Happy birthday.

You're essentiallly getting free auto-attack while you wait on the cooldown from your basic attacks (unless auto-attack is turned off while waiting on basic attack cooldown?).

___

The thing that concerns me most about this new system is that (so far) Multishot seems to have a high probability of being useless.

If they're smart (haha) they'll design basic attacks to share recast timers like DoL abilities do (ie. different tiers of lay of the land/prospect).

If light stab, heavy stab, and heavy slash all share a recast timer, problem solved.

[Spider-Dan]

If they're smart (haha) they'll design basic attacks to share recast timers like DoL abilities do (ie. different tiers of lay of the land/prospect).

If light stab, heavy stab, and heavy slash all share a recast timer, problem solved.

ARC would be screwed, but yeah, I see where you're going.

[Sephiroth]

The worst part about light shot having a recast is the recast timers almost never display correctly. My timers right now are 63 seconds out of synch, so if I hit an ability with a 1 minute recast it will show up as usable again immediately. Of course being that far out is rare. 3-6 seconds out is way more common and that's in just the right range to ensure my screen is spammed with "Light Shot cannot be used now".

I honestly don't like the direction this game is taking. I could rage about so many things. From their job plan to low man dungeons to this and more. If there's ever a time I've considered quitting it's now. But I will stick around until October at least to see how it all works out.

[Kurokikaze]

In reference to ARC, they shouldn't even be close enough to use their fists anyway. I don't plan on leveling ARC, but having a little white damage ranged auto-attack would have been nice, but not having it, is not something I view as a serious issue. Maybe I'll give it a try and see how it feels once the patch launches.

Theres nothing to wait and see really when it comes to ARC. It's going to function exactly as it does now except with a long CD on Multi Shot.

[Niiro]

I've see a lot of people make the out-of-sync recast complaint and I think it's a user-end problem for the most part. Not to say that the root of the problem isn't SE's, just that it's something that only some people encounter for one reason or another (slow connection, high concentration lag, etc) as a lot of people (myself included) haven't experienced it.

They're always mentioning making improvements to the "system" or whatever in order to improve client-server interaction to make things run smoother overall so hopefully it's something that will be addressed.

Also don't people mention that bug usually happening after a particularly long amount of time being continuously logged in?