Should recording the police be illegal?

[jmc]

Great reply, never knew you did vice lol

[Nephlite]

Yeah I actually just rotated back. When I left the Army Reserves I was looking for a job and when I joined the police department, it only took me a year to get transferred to VICE. Will probably do it till I retire or get shot. Was thinking about K-9. You in patrol or admin?

[jmc]

Yeah I actually just rotated back. When I left the Army Reserves I was looking for a job and when I joined the police department, it only took me a year to get transferred to VICE. Will probably do it till I retire or get shot. Was thinking about K-9. You in patrol or admin?

I've done a little bit of everything, besides plain clothes. Special ops for a bit, and now I'm a admin post.

Also, k-9 is a awesome gig. I would have loved to get into that, but I don't own a house which a requirement. Come to Boston and be a k-9 officer, we don't have enough here...always borrowing one from state or transit PD.

[*Shinzon*]

I've done a little bit of everything, besides plain clothes. Special ops for a bit, and now I'm a admin post.

Also, k-9 is a awesome gig. I would have loved to get into that, but I don't own a house which a requirement. Come to Boston and be a k-9 officer, we don't have enough here...always borrowing one from state or transit PD.

If my career as a lawyer doesn't pan out I'd love to do K-9. There's just something about working with the dogs that's attractive. Not to mention the detail I would imagine is pretty fluid based on the situation.

[Kerberoz]

Easy stuff, too; you just have to learn to be subtle when signaling the dog for a false positive and your training is nearly complete.

[Kuya]

If i become a cop and get into a k-9 unit, can i call it hype-dog?

[Nephlite]

Easy stuff, too; you just have to learn to be subtle when signaling the dog for a false positive and your training is nearly complete.

Either that or you actually discover something and save the world! (My old psychology professor used to say stuff like that^. You aren't Banzef are you?)

Couldn't be an admin. Nothing worse then some pompus asshole who thinks he's a lawyer screaming for an official. I had arrested a guy once for urinating in public after I issued him a warning. He kept screaming I was being unfair, there were badguys worse than him, etc. before hitting me in the forehead with the rolled up citation. Screamed for an official for like 20 minutes. Have to call em cause it's in the general orders =/

[Darus Grey]

A lot of stuff.

Well, I am talking about the future, still the near future though. There's a lot of dumb criminals out there, but crime as a lifestyle is about adapting for sake of survival; I'd never underestimate them.


That said, I appreciate the insight, the only thing I'd add though is I understand that you have experiences with existing facial recognition technology, but it's probably already vastly out-dated. Something I never see really discussed is the technological underground shifts, a lot of new tech isn't in the public or even private enterprise domains anymore, it's in the hands of private individuals and organizations who use it.

There's a huge demand for criminal software developers and it pays better than any other gig you could get(and unlike traditional crimes isn't even illegal) from a corporation or government. The reason this stuff worries me is because the smart criminals in all likelihood are going to have access to this tech for a year before you as an officer even know it exists, you won't find out until the small bit criminals get it, and by then it's everywhere. Then you're playing years of catch up to a threat that you weren't prepared for.

I'm not talking about *just* this facial stuff either, but for the last 3-4 years there's been a increasing shift to the underground in the world of development. Who knows what's even out there anymore.

[archibaldcrane]

There's a huge demand for criminal software developers and it pays better than any other gig you could get(and unlike traditional crimes isn't even illegal) from a corporation or government. The reason this stuff worries me is because the smart criminals in all likelihood are going to have access to this tech for a year before you as an officer even know it exists, you won't find out until the small bit criminals get it, and by then it's everywhere. Then you're playing years of catch up to a threat that you weren't prepared for.

I'm not talking about *just* this facial stuff either, but for the last 3-4 years there's been a increasing shift to the underground in the world of development. Who knows what's even out there anymore.

If I read this in the voice I imagine your avatar has, it doesn't make me roll my eyes.

[Melchiah]

The safety risk argument falls on deaf ears here. The risks of undercover work are well documented, and chosen willingly. An undercover officer being photographed in uniform or with a badge while in the execution of his official duty, such as a field interview or an arrest is no different from the same officer being photographed in uniform or with a badge while walking down the street or eating lunch. The risk of being photographed or filmed in public is one that everyone takes when they enter a public place, cops included.

To illustrate the rediculousness:

Suppose that a law is passed that makes it a felony to film an undercover police officer, because it increases the officer's safety risk. So now, in order to not inadvertently break this law, everyone who's hobby is photography or film-making now has to know who all the undercover cops are and what they look like. See where this is going? Furthermore, if it were a felony to film an undercover cop, they could charge anyone with a video camera with a felony any time they wanted. It's bullshit on so many levels.

I'd like to add that vice cops are a waste of taxpayer dollars, and do nothing but cause problems, destroy lives, and create even greater wastes of taxpayer money. This is why I'm unconcerned about their safety. They're not acting in the public's best interests, therefore they are welcome to the rewards they reap. Sorry that's as harsh as it is; I know there are good cops, but narcotics cops are not doing society any good.

[Melena]

I'd like to know why you think they do society no good. What difference is there between a plain clothes officer and someone in full uniform 12hrs a day.

[hey]

I'd like to know why you think they do society no good.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/misc/friedm1.htm

tl;dr: drug prohibition causes almost every single problem associated with recreational drugs, and the drug trade, not the drugs themselves. Enforcement obviously contributes to that.

[Nephlite]

I'd like to know too. Funny how you think vice cops are worthless and I think politicians are worthless. We think alike!

I agree that it shouldn't be illegal to photograph the police, undercover or not. It's a risk that any civil servant takes and it's not reasonable to think a law like that would ever pass. I don't even worry about it in my job. As long as they don't impede or try to wander in to a crime scene, or get to close to the cops while their back is turned, they get to do whatever they want.

Not sure of what rewards you think Vice cops get. It's a shitty, thankless, dangerous, and fucking sick job that you have to be a whack job to even consider doing. This isn't like Training Day where the dirty corrupt Vice cop goes in to a house with a fake warrant, grabs a ton of bills and uses them to buy himself an execution for his rookie partner. It's all fantasy my friend. It's like I said: Vice work is 90-95% intelligence gathering and about 5% of actual street work. If Vice makes a move, it's a carefully coordinated attack that took months or even years to plan and even longer to aquire the legal paperwork to execute it. Yes, there are times where I walk around in plainclothes and nab myself a robbery suspect or two. But I don't just go around every day buying up drugs, smoking them, selling them, slapping my hooker, and fucking everyone to get a small stash of money and some guns.

It all comes down to the grand network. Intelligence among Vice is passed along multiple agencies in an area to coordinate what's called a saturation tactic. Intelligence and evidence is gathered, informants are bought, people are killed and cops infiltrate the behind the scenes game to find out who the big players are and take them down. Every day, millions are infected by scum who come here, selling drugs to kids, moms, and dads to make a profit and they don't care how they do it. We put a lid on it and make sure that it stays on it. That's why most if not all of us do it. Cause no one else will do it and people who think that a prohibition on drugs is the cause of the drug war don't stop to think that humans are filthy, lying, repulsive, disgusting creatures who will do stuff regardless of weather or not it's against the law.

Most of those people probably have never seen what a man does to his small 6 month old child after he takes a hit off an 8 Ball High Life (Cocaine, Heroin, mixed with PCP, snorted or smoked) and that it took 3 lives of dedicated law enforcement officers just to bring the guy to a point where 12 more could get in to the front door to kill him so he stops eviscerating the child. How about that for a bedtime story?

[Melena]

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/misc/friedm1.htm

tl;dr: drug prohibition causes almost every single problem associated with recreational drugs, and the drug trade, not the drugs themselves. Enforcement obviously contributes to that.

Most undercover/vice cops are going after the sources, usually the violent gang bangers and kingpins. Your typical joe schmoe who gets busted with pills or weed are usually pulled over by uniformed officers, more often then not by violating another law (dead headlights being a common one) then being retarded and consenting to searches of the car.

[hey]

Most undercover/vice cops are going after the sources, usually the violent gang bangers and kingpins. Your typical joe schmoe who gets busted with pills or weed are usually pulled over by uniformed officers, more often then not by violating another law (dead headlights being a common one) then being retarded and consenting to searches of the car.

And those gang bangers are only violent because they have to be. I am sure they'd rather sell their product to wallmart, and use the courts to settle disputes. But they can't, so instead if someone tries to cheat them, they just kill them.

And yes, i understand what vice does. In fact, you cause more harm by going after the organizations. Because now those organizations are carrying around more guns to kill you with, which are probably going to be used to kill other people as well. You decrease competition because those small groups cannot afford to stay out of jail/alive. You drive prices way up, so now those drug addicts need to go do some B&Es to pay for their drugs. Then when it comes time for that raid, you kill 20 people (call them scum all you want, they are still people), plus a cop dies. And the next day you get to do it all over again, when 5 more organizations are there to take their place.

You get people killed, you increase crime rates, waste taxpayer dollars, and accomplish absolutely nothing.

[Nephlite]

Also would like to add @Darus:

This is the formula that I would like to equate to your post: I haven't seen it, so it doesn't exist. You haven't seen it, but heard about it, so surely it must exist.

Technology at it's forefront goes to Law Enforcement or the military first. AFIS (Automated Fingerprint Identification System) is an example of high grade technology that was developed by a black market researcher, hired by the FBI, and is probably the most advanced biometrics database in the world. Before, it would take an analyst months if not years to isolate a single fingerprint match in the database. Now it only takes a week or two at the most and the technology is improving daily. In the end, it's all about the good guys winning. Hell even badguys don't want the bad guys to win. Why do you think high powered crime syndicates are always trying to pay off the police? They know they will loose. There's a hell of a lot more Law Enforcement agents in the world than badguys and anyone smart enough to run a crime syndicate knows that it's suicide to square off against law enforcement.

I'll put it in to perspective. Yes, you might be able to find out who I am, and yes you can probably damage me. Yes, you can go after me, my family, my job, and even stalk me. But in the end, you'll never get me. I'll raise enough cain to ensure no one who goes after me will live to regret ever screwing with me and if they do? I have millions of brothers and sisters out there who will avenge me. You can kill me, but you cannot destroy that which is me and what I fight for, for I am eternal and will live forever through my cause.

That is the real law enforcement motto there. Find a law enforcement agent who will disagree.

[Nephlite]

And those gang bangers are only violent because they have to be. I am sure they'd rather sell their product to wallmart, and use the courts to settle disputes. But they can't, so instead if someone tries to cheat them, they just kill them.

And yes, i understand what vice does. In fact, you cause more harm by going after the organizations. Because now those organizations are carrying around more guns to kill you with, which are probably going to be used to kill other people as well. You decrease competition because those small groups cannot afford to stay out of jail/alive. You drive prices way up, so now those drug addicts need to go do some B&Es to pay for their drugs. Then when it comes time for that raid, you kill 20 people (call them scum all you want, they are still people), plus a cop dies. And the next day you get to do it all over again, when 5 more organizations are there to take their place.

You get people killed, you increase crime rates, waste taxpayer dollars, and accomplish absolutely nothing.

And so it's okay for people to distribute drugs such as PCP or Heroin that kills people or causes people to pull the stomach and intestines out of a small child because the drug made him do it? Come off it dude, drugs are bad for a reason. If it was JUST marijuana, then yes I would agree (i'm all for legalization). But when you put shit in the mix like Khat, Peyote, Meth, and even Dippers (Embalming Fluid laced marijuana cigarettes), it does nothing but kill people. Khat and Peyote were once medicinal and spiritual drugs used by people who've been using the stuff way before man became known as man and people have picked the stuff up and used it like they would any old can of spraypaint to huff.

It's that simple: as long as people continue to abuse drugs to the point where it can cause a negative impact on themselves or others, it will always be illegal and will always be fought.

[Dmitry]

Actually he's right. Police Departments haven't caught up yet with technology, but you guys are going to have to accept the fact that in the near future undercover police work is simply not going to be feasible. There will simply be too much information out there that prevents even a new cop from effectively doing their job.

The more advanced criminal organizations already keep databases of police officers, and the fact that more officers don't get their cover blown is simply the lack of due diligence on the part of the criminals, cause there is an incredibly high chance you've already been outed.

I mean, you realize that within 5~ years criminals are going to have easy access to the technology that will let them take a picture of you with a cell phone and it'll automatically identify you as a cop from their existing database, or cross-reference your face on the internet for proximity to any other known police officers?

If you or anyone you care about is in undercover work, tell them to GTFO. It's a dead profession.

I'm curious where you got this information from.

[jmc]

And those gang bangers are only violent because they have to be. I am sure they'd rather sell their product to wallmart, and use the courts to settle disputes. But they can't, so instead if someone tries to cheat them, they just kill them.

Lets just completely forget the fact that gangbangers kill individuals for stepping on the wrong street corner.... or wearing the wrong color.... or talking to the wrong person.... or looking at someone funny......

[Khamsin]

I'm curious where you got this information from.

It's common knowledge! Just look at the technology available to criminal syndicates in Bond movies, or to international crime organizations on TV shows like Chuck or Alias.

Everyone knows they just have to take a picture or hack into an ATM or traffic camera, say "Enhance" and a person's pixelated, partially obstructed face will enlarge and become crystal clear and well-lit, then a bunch of pictures will flash by on another monitor until a match is found. Then a rotating holographic display of the person, along with all their up-to-date personal information will pop up. Then the tech guy at HQ just tells the field operative through their earpiece who and what the person is.