Obama proposes cuts to social security and medicare

[Kurokikaze]

No idea. But a lot of people claim that he set it up to make the GOP look like the ones that didn't want to compromise.

I honestly think he didn't try for that outcome and it just kinda turned out that way. His track record doesn't give me the impression that this was "all part of the plan..." (Joker voice).

[Kuya]

why are liberals still trotting out "obama's ultimate strategy" or obama's 11th dimensional chess whatever?

They really, really desperately want to believe he's more liberal than he actually seems. When it comes to defending the Obama administration, it's been nothing but excuses. The previous excuse was that it was too early and we needed to give him time to make some big liberal wins. Another one was that Obama was trying for small incremental changes that will eventually amount to some big changes, and that anyone who wanted otherwise was left-wing socialist loony who is very unserious.

[Demosthenes11]

liberals that think obama is winning points by looking serious or making the republicans look dumb (especially through the media) really make me thing they dont understand the american electorate at all

[Zoolander]

Check this shit out lol, relevant to the comment above (as in, the american electorate is fucking stupid)

http://www.gallup.com/poll/148454/De...Americans.aspx

PRINCETON, NJ -- Despite agreement among leaders of both sides of the political aisle in Washington that raising the U.S. debt ceiling is necessary, more Americans want their member of Congress to vote against such a bill than for it, 42% vs. 22%, while one-third are unsure. This 20-percentage-point edge in opposition to raising the debt ceiling in Gallup's July 7-10 poll is slightly less than the 28-point lead (47% vs. 19%) seen in May.

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/...tjr3d-ehsg.gif

Its one thing to not be happy we have to raise it, its another to say you want your congressmen to vote against such a bill. I have to think the significant majority of people don't know enough to have an opinion, and while 1/3rd said as much, the others just see "government spending more money" and scream "nooooo" and voted against it. I surely hope so anyways.

[solanis]

they don't understand that if the ceiling isn't raised, the world will basically end

and that's not hyperbole either

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Am I biased or does Obama saying he can't guarantee SS payments if the debt ceiling isn't raised mean our President just admitted SS is a ponzi scheme?

[Kuya]

Am I biased or does Obama saying he can't guarantee SS payments if the debt ceiling isn't raised mean our President just admitted SS is a ponzi scheme?

lol

[Jer]

There are several things we could implement to improve our future, and I don't see why nobody ever suggests them. Just a couple off the top of my head:

Put a bounty on homeless people. Not only will it create jobs and help people have more money to spend, it will lower crime and just make places look better.

Create a policy involving sterilization. Give like $50,000 to any women who will come it and get her tubes tied, and $75,000 or so to men to get the little snip done. Sure, it's easy as hell for a women to get pregnant, but once they are, they can't do so again until the kid pops out. Meanwhile the guy can go run around and get as many pregnant as will fuck him. Obviously this will be an option that is more apt to be taken the lower the income level of the household, and it has many benefits. Sure, it costs a little to start up, but in a few years, just think of all the money we'll save.

[Plow]

Check this shit out lol, relevant to the comment above (as in, the american electorate is fucking stupid)

http://www.gallup.com/poll/148454/De...Americans.aspx

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/...tjr3d-ehsg.gif

Its one thing to not be happy we have to raise it, its another to say you want your congressmen to vote against such a bill. I have to think the significant majority of people don't know enough to have an opinion, and while 1/3rd said as much, the others just see "government spending more money" and scream "nooooo" and voted against it. I surely hope so anyways.

honestly don't think most congressmen on either side could have told you what the debt ceiling actually is 6 months ago

[Demosthenes11]

So I've been doing a lot of reading today, and come to a realization. This is a complete charade. The republicans are looking to increase interest on student loans to raise $20 billion over 10 years. Republicans and democrats are trying to agree on cutting spending in x program to save $40 billion over 10 years, and y program to save $50 billion over 15 years.

Why the fuck are we barking at each other over these program cuts to save some money when we have literally spent, at minimum, $4.4 TRILLION in the last 10 years (not even) in just afghanistan, iraq, and libya alone. Republicans and democrats alike have said the wars are off the table to cut. We are so entrenched in the 2 party system and wanting our side to win and the other side to be the bad guys and the dumb ones that we are all the dumb fucking shits. We are getting passionate about the wrong shit. We should be in agreement that these representatives refuse to actually address the problem due to corporate money and the MIC dominating the system.

It would be great to be able to have a meaningful discussion on debt and what is good for the country. Instead, we are meth-heads wondering whether our glass of wine every night with dinner is good or bad for us. Our media doesn't give a fuck anymore. Either we stop acting like cunts toward each other and band together or we lose the country completely in a few decades. I 100% believe that if that does not happen, we will be in history books about how the Americans were unified in the most important belief of ending the wars, yet so fragmented in petty policy that they couldn't work together to end the bullshit in washington.

If this all continues, the only thing that might be able to save the country in 5-10 years is a revolution. I hope that is not needed.

[notorious bum]

Democracy now has been bringing up this very premise at every new "development" on these deficit talks. All public polls agree, most politicians even agree, this giant fucking elephant in the room is NEVER discussed. It's simple fucking mathematics, these SS and Medicare cuts in the name of lowering the nation's debt aren't fooling anybody but a few teabaggers and ignorant honkies who could care less about anybody but themselves(even when this could effect them! lol).

You've pretty much summed everything up here, people can argue tit-for-tat all they want, but like you said its not solving shit they really want to tackle the problem at hand.

If I didn't know any better, I would say this SS/Medicare shit is merely another attack in a long history of the Neocon's Class War that they've been waging against us for decades. That's my 2 cents.

[Demosthenes11]

I saw a deficit chart and I had a big "holy fuck" moment. SS isn't what changed, "entitlement" programs didnt really change, taxes did decrease, but not with nearly the same fervor that the deficit has been shooting up.

It's the fucking wars and out of control "defense" spending. Honestly, I've read maybe 2 things this entire time where a republican said "the defense spending is off the table." Nowhere else has a politician even acknowledged that it exists. It's mind-numbingly crazy. I'm way past thinking this is a coincidence or maybe I just don't get it. These tiny ass cuts and small tax increase arguments are to keep us entertained, make us feel like something is being done or that the problem isn't the elephant, it's the frog - actually, the elephant isn't even there, the room is just more cramped because of the frog. It could be the rabbit, too.

We were always told growing up that the media is the 4th pillar of democracy - when the government failed, the media would hold them accountable for their actions. Thankfully, Al Gore gave us the 5th pillar - the information age. It's possible to fight back. I argue politics a lot, and I'm not going to talk about partisan bullshit anymore. Every single person needs to hear each other and not a democrat or a republican. We are almost all in agreement on what is most important, let's act like it.

[notorious bum]

ignore this post then, I thought my last post didn't get submitted due to Windows Update auto-shutdown.

[Niiro]

I saw a deficit chart and I had a big "holy fuck" moment. SS isn't what changed, "entitlement" programs didnt really change, taxes did decrease, but not with nearly the same fervor that the deficit has been shooting up.

It's the fucking wars and out of control "defense" spending. Honestly, I've read maybe 2 things this entire time where a republican said "the defense spending is off the table." Nowhere else has a politician even acknowledged that it exists. It's mind-numbingly crazy. I'm way past thinking this is a coincidence or maybe I just don't get it. These tiny ass cuts and small tax increase arguments are to keep us entertained, make us feel like something is being done or that the problem isn't the elephant, it's the frog - actually, the elephant isn't even there, the room is just more cramped because of the frog. It could be the rabbit, too.

We were always told growing up that the media is the 4th pillar of democracy - when the government failed, the media would hold them accountable for their actions. Thankfully, Al Gore gave us the 5th pillar - the information age. It's possible to fight back. I argue politics a lot, and I'm not going to talk about partisan bullshit anymore. Every single person needs to hear each other and not a democrat or a republican. We are almost all in agreement on what is most important, let's act like it.

You sound like you're in the interim phase between ignorance and acceptance (think of it like the 5 stages of grief). You've just realized how defunct it all is (really late to the party btw) but you've yet to realize no one says anything about it because it's pointless. It isn't going to change.

It's like pointing out that eventually the sun is going to explode and mankind will be extinct. Completely true, completely unchangeable and therefore irrelevant.

[Olo401]

liberals that think obama is winning points by looking serious or making the republicans look dumb (especially through the media) really make me thing they don't understand the american electorate at all

He's not winning points among either base (he's lost points with the Dem base, but what're they gonna do primary him?) He is absolutely killing it with the independents tho. Plus he's defusing the Tea Party at the same time by overshooting Boehner & Cantor.

Why the fuck are we barking at each other over these program cuts to save some money when we have literally spent, at minimum, $4.4 TRILLION in the last 10 years (not even) in just afghanistan, iraq, and libya alone.

I usually don't question how much the Bush wars have cost us, but in this case I have to ask what that includes. I check CostOfWar on a weekly basis as part of a blog posting and it's only running at about 1.2 Trillion for Iraq & Afghanistan's direct military and associated support, logistical and diplomatic costs, so I'm guessing you've included the projected veterans medical bill and lost trade revenues?

[Talint]

It isn't going to change.

I would argue that there's a significant number of people who thought that voting for Barack Obama had signaled in a new era of US politics and governance. Y'know, that whole platform of "change" thing. Instead, they got this weird statesman who's issued in a "new era" of politics by being a democrat wanting republican votes.

The people want change. They're willing to vote for it. But damned if they get it. I reject the notion that the mountain is immovable.

[Furtwangler]

You sound like you're in the interim phase between ignorance and acceptance (think of it like the 5 stages of grief). You've just realized how defunct it all is (really late to the party btw) but you've yet to realize no one says anything about it because it's pointless. It isn't going to change.

It's like pointing out that eventually the sun is going to explode and mankind will be extinct. Completely true, completely unchangeable and therefore irrelevant.

So you're basically saying the US is doomed and will in some time collapse/become bankrupt - and there's nothing that will be done about it by any of the citizens?

Entirely possible, but I think eventually a group will rise up and do something, somehow.

[solanis]

So you're basically saying the US is doomed and will in some time collapse/become bankrupt - and there's nothing that will be done about it by any of the citizens?

Entirely possible, but I think eventually a group will rise up and do something, somehow.

[Plow]

I would argue that there's a significant number of people who thought that voting for Barack Obama had signaled in a new era of US politics and governance. Y'know, that whole platform of "change" thing. Instead, they got this weird statesman who's issued in a "new era" of politics by being a democrat wanting republican votes.

The people want change. They're willing to vote for it. But damned if they get it. I reject the notion that the mountain is immovable.

This is the dumbest Obama argument there is, because you don't want a change in politics, you want your side to be bigger assholes to the other side.

Want a more liberal change? Take action that leads to republicans having to act more liberally in order to get reelected.

[TsingTao]

I usually don't question how much the Bush wars have cost us, but in this case I have to ask what that includes. I check CostOfWar on a weekly basis as part of a blog posting and it's only running at about 1.2 Trillion for Iraq & Afghanistan's direct military and associated support, logistical and diplomatic costs, so I'm guessing you've included the projected veterans medical bill and lost trade revenues?

The numbers are from this article.