Shout Group Etiquette

[Pandorablue]

Adding to LOLAsura: The only shouts on that annoy me are the ones that lock WHM or BLM but need a WHM or BLM. WHM i can forgive more since the player may be on BLM to trigger grellow, but any nontank/nonBLU job locking BLM to me seems beyond LOL.

People have more than one job.

Sports at 11.

[Apelila]

Exactly, so why are you locking BLM and shouting for one to trigger your grellows if someone can change jobs, letting you shout for something easier to get? Oh boy, I'm sure going to gear up my BLM for those PUP/SCH seals you've been offering in shout for the last hour.

Late late show at 12?

[dasva]

There easier to find jobs than blm?

Also what if said person was a really pimped out DD/tank? Proc monkey can't screw up the fight as much. And hell going naked serves almost as much purpose sometimes as fully geared. But that tank could easily cause a wipe or the fight to take forever and a day.

Personally I'd put people I know and trust in more vital to sucess positions

[Apelila]

True, but you're positing a scenario that is not what I'm aggrivated with.
I'm more /huh at the DRG/WHM who starts a party with BLM locked, or hell any nontank DD that does this. Who are still shouting an hour later because they need a BLM, when they could switch from DD to blm. I don't see everyday anymore, but its still a common enouch occurance on Asura. And I don't know about your server, but our doesn't seem to be swiming in BLM's with nothing better to do than absorb mertis/xp/PUP seals.

[Silkavenger]

The problem of etiquette regarding "locking" items in a shout pt is really one of semantics. To say that a leader can "lock" items away from other players implies he has the right to choose what others get and, conversely, that joining members don't have the right to request certain items. When people have their rights encroached upon they predictably get upset.

People often (including in this thread) try to justify the "right" of the leader to "lock" items based on certain criteria, citing anything from providing a pop set to making the effort to construct and lead the group. These a fine arguments and most agree they do afford the leader certain rights. However, since these feeling are based on opinions there is not likely to ever be a true consensus.

When I make shout groups, I don't consider myself to be "locking" anything. I'm simply "not recruiting" people who want skins(for example). I am however recruiting people who are interested in items A, B and C. If you are interested in those items, lets work together. Recruiting only people who don't want skins is no less ethical than only recruiting certain jobs to complete your pt.

If we get away from the word "lock" it dispells the connection to what a player has the "right" to lot on. We are left with a group of people who are lotting non-competitively on different things to their mutual benefit.

[Sylvrdragon]

There are some short-bus Mouth-breathing herp-da-derps on Asura, I must admit.

[Cesaria]

True, but you're positing a scenario that is not what I'm aggrivated with.
I'm more /huh at the DRG/WHM who starts a party with BLM locked, or hell any nontank DD that does this. Who are still shouting an hour later because they need a BLM, when they could switch from DD to blm. I don't see everyday anymore, but its still a common enouch occurance on Asura. And I don't know about your server, but our doesn't seem to be swiming in BLM's with nothing better to do than absorb mertis/xp/PUP seals.

It's endless requests for WHMs who have a deep and burning need for PUP seals on Quetz.

[catmato]

I'm surprised by people being shocked that others pay for spots in cleaves. On Leviathan, there's pretty much always a shout in Jeuno offering 15 leech spots for 300k each. As far as I know, they always fill up, too.

[Kaisha]

Be a lot faster to organize seal PTs if people if it were more common to just have two potential slots per seal. Granted of all the ones I've seen for that on Asura, 90% of the time the leader claims their desired seals to themselves only. It eliminates the 'junk' seal (jobs with low population count that already have their +1s) problem with a lot of mobs.

Dunno about the rest of you, but I typically aim for 2-3 runs to 8/8 my seals.
(granted I also have shit luck on seals I'm after, even with Yellow/TH)

[Panthera]

@ Nikia

First off, whoever is shouting "You fail" is rude. Creating a scene like that and arguing in public disturbs the peace of everyone else. If they have a problem with you, they should take it to /tell with you.

That said, it comes down to what you're asking for vs. what you're offering. If everyone participates in farming the pops sets and in the fight, then everyone has an equal right to lot on the spoils of that fight. If someone is providing the pop sets, then they have a greater investment in the spoils, and so they should see greater returns--within reason.

Good leadership is valuable--and rare--but so too are good followers. You cannot put a premium on one without putting it on the other. Bad leaders have groups jumping off cliffs like lemmings, and bad followers can ruin an event for everyone else with the push of a button just the same. A good leader does not treat his followers like a labor force for his own personal benefit, but allows everyone, including himself, a chance at the spoils they deserve.

Sure, the leader has the Yellow Dot of Justice; he can do whatever he wants. But that doesn't mean that he should or that it is right, and that's where ethics and etiquette come into play, where reputations are built or laid waste.

Best of luck in future shouts,

~Panthera

[VZX01]

I'd just ignore the "You fail" comment. Like someone else said earlier, you need to be thick-skinned these days.

Ignore them; People still consider you are right if you've finally put together your group. And you will re-introspect your /sh deal in case you couldn't set up your group. One or another will have to adjust themselves. That's just the essence for making a deal.

[vagus]

Shouts on Odin can get hilarious. Idiots yelling about the Japanese not using auto-translated words. Must be super bitter or something.

[TacoTaru]

Dunno about the rest of you, but I typically aim for 2-3 runs to 8/8 my seals.
(granted I also have shit luck on seals I'm after, even with Yellow/TH)

If I'm going out more than once it's to 8/8 and 6/6. Only time I ever leave without 8/8ing is if it's a timed mob that's being annoying/over camped or something else comes up; I don't see the point in leaving before you're done otherwise.

[Malacite]

Personally for me if they are doing skins then take the skins , if they are doing it for +2 then open up skins and get skins another time. Its like joining a seal run where the guy hosting is lotting 2 seals and the other guys coming a long have to buy their pop too ,and have to lot against each other for drops. Just my point of view.

I've joined my fair share of shout thingies, but if someone's locking 2 things I wont consider it, but don't feel the need to shout out about it in jeuno. I'll just leave that to the people who like back in my day stories, over priced rancor collars or selling Fell Cleave leech spots for 75-100k

This. I do find it a bit annoying (though thankfully it's happened maybe 2, 3 times tops) where people bitch when I want multiple seals... but only like 1~3, because I have a bunch of near-complete AF3 +1's from doing a lot of Dom Ops. So it's fine to lock 8 seals of one kind, but not 2~5 in total of 2 or more types?

[Damane]

basicly if you farmed a popset beforehand and just want people for the kill, I wouldnt have a problem that the leader locks an item or 2 (if said item doesnt drop). I have seen shout tough where there wasnt mentioned if the popsets was farmed, thats why I ask right at the beginning if the popset is present. Seriously no popset + locking an item = gtfo, at least not something I would join.

[Marihoki]

I don't understand the problem with a party leader locking in 2 items if its some type of shout group... even if they haven't farmed up the pop set. Especially with the something like Sobek, If the party leader was just looking for Skins and Stone of Ardor, there are still three other items that people could potentially want. As long as they know the deal ahead of time I don't see the problem. Ideally I would think you would try and find people who want different items then you so everyone gets a chance to get something they want.

If people want the items the party leader wants, then simply just don't join the party? I don't see why its that hard and why people are complaining about it. It is a shout group after all. If you had a problem with it just make your own shout group and just don't lock any of the items...

[Dmitry]

This. I do find it a bit annoying (though thankfully it's happened maybe 2, 3 times tops) where people bitch when I want multiple seals... but only like 1~3, because I have a bunch of near-complete AF3 +1's from doing a lot of Dom Ops. So it's fine to lock 8 seals of one kind, but not 2~5 in total of 2 or more types?

Nobody wants to go on these runs and compete with someone else. Just go for 1 of what you need and wait til whoever needs the others you need finishes up however many they need before you take them.