Random Question Thread XXII: You Know the Deal

[dasva]

Lol war/whm wtf

[Kidnoftle]

So since it was never answered before can normal short range blu spells hit the KS99 wyrm in the air?

And semi related how easy is Niddog now?

As long as it's a ranged or magical att it should work I think? Not sure, just a guess. Nidd is retardmode easy for just about any normal/sensible job combos. Multiple reports in the LVL90OMGISOLOOLDCONTENT thread if you want specifics.

[Martinius]

Lol war/whm wtf

way back in the day, some of the first consistent NA kills of tiamat were done by an ls named iron, and they perpetuated the war/whm tank (they had an early ghorn) bouncing hate between a couple of them w/ curaga spam and tons of koenig gear. but no one's done that since, i dunno, 05/06?

[dasva]

As long as it's a ranged or magical att it should work I think? Not sure, just a guess. Nidd is retardmode easy for just about any normal/sensible job combos. Multiple reports in the LVL90OMGISOLOOLDCONTENT thread if you want specifics.

Well I ask because wiki says blood pacts work and normal blu spells are slightly farther than melee/ws range. I know somethings that can't be meleed can be blu spelled but then not all I think.

And yeah I was thinking maybe thf + whm hopefully

[Yugl]

way back in the day, some of the first consistent NA kills of tiamat were done by an ls named iron, and they perpetuated the war/whm tank (they had an early ghorn) bouncing hate between a couple of them w/ curaga spam and tons of koenig gear. but no one's done that since, i dunno, 05/06?

This. Still doesn't excuse the "DRK can't tank" comments.

[Scrooge]

@dasva: Nidhogg is exactly what you'd expect when you're fifteen levels higher than you last fought him. Just don't flail him under MS if you're not ready to deal with it.

Can you read? I listed you most items for chloris. They cost 285k+. Sisy + snow are 170k and Bria's are 70k so 240k total. (prices from now from Bahamut).

Can you count? You need more Apademak pops in total than what you accounted for. Account for them, and it is more costly then Chloris path.

Also you doesnt need to buy triggers for gigas. They are easy to farm and can't be compare to exorcised skull for example ( for which you need to first farm a trigger then kill NM that can reraise fuck tons of times and cast death ).

Doesn't matter whether you need to or not. It's faster to buy the pops, and almost always more efficient.

By the way, farming the gigas pops can be dependent entirely on luck, whether you bothered to bring a TH and whether when you show up the gigas are even despawned or not. The AH is always there and it's always reliable. There's no real need to even bring a TH or bother fighting them if you just buy the pops. 60k is a joke, you can make that money autoswinging on an Abyssea NM, afk, go take a dump, and come back with a 100k item that'll sell it three hours.

You can set limitations and stipulations all you want to pretend to win an argument. The simple truth is that regardless of what setup and/or resources you have, if you applied them both to doing Briareus path or Chloris path from scratch to 90, you'll most likely finish Chloris path first.

However likely you are at getting cock blocked at Chukwa, you're just as likely to get cock blocked at Dhorme Khimaira. Where as you (almost) cannot get blocked out of Dragua. Kannagi + Almace is provably more popular than Verethragna + the other two that almost don't even count. Over time, you are more likely to be waiting on people to do the former than the latter.

Ever arguing you gotta do 7 NMs per Chloris is flat out stupid. There are FAR more efficient ways of making easily liquidable gil then buying Exorcised Skulls, etc. than individually farming them per Chloris.

Assuming you're buying everything from scratch, Bat/HectEyes/Scorp is always gonna take less time than three Gigas. Far less time. Dragua (which you can cleave) is more likely to take less time than Apademak (not to mention ANY setup that can kill Apademak easily can kill Dragua just as easily, but the reverse is not always true depending on whether you have stunners or not).

If you think Chukwa's gonna make up the difference, you go right ahead. Perhaps your servers are far bigger than mine, or none of you can be bothered to grab him during uncrowded times, but that guy sits up all the time. It's a gigantic turtle that isn't hard to proc, takes no time to kill, and respawns every 10-15 min.

[Deader2818]

This is honestly the first time I ever hard anyone say that farming gigas pops was time consuming.

[Scrooge]

Hardly what I said, and I think you know it. Doesn't matter how long it takes, buying all three pops always takes less than a minute.

Btw, even if you utterly ignored Briareus pops' costs, 38 Apademaks at 170k each is comparable to cdgreg's listed price for 30 Chloris pops. And there's almost no way you'd actually finish 75 Apademak horns in 38 pops.

[cdgreg]

Hardly what I said, and I think you know it. Doesn't matter how long it takes, buying all three pops always takes less than a minute.

Btw, even if you utterly ignored Briareus pops' costs, 38 Apademaks at 170k each is comparable to cdgreg's listed price for 30 Chloris pops. And there's almost no way you'd actually finish 75 Apademak horns in 38 pops.

Definitely true. I ignored Apa because weapons are quite usable at level 85 and a lot of folks leave it there for now, looking all the way through 90 probably does even out quite a bit. I'm crossing my fingers SE adds Apa KI to gold chests next update!

[Atoreis]

@dasva: Nidhogg is exactly what you'd expect when you're fifteen levels higher than you last fought him. Just don't flail him under MS if you're not ready to deal with it.



Can you count? You need more Apademak pops in total than what you accounted for. Account for them, and it is more costly then Chloris path.



Doesn't matter whether you need to or not. It's faster to buy the pops, and almost always more efficient.

By the way, farming the gigas pops can be dependent entirely on luck, whether you bothered to bring a TH and whether when you show up the gigas are even despawned or not. The AH is always there and it's always reliable. There's no real need to even bring a TH or bother fighting them if you just buy the pops. 60k is a joke, you can make that money autoswinging on an Abyssea NM, afk, go take a dump, and come back with a 100k item that'll sell it three hours.

You can set limitations and stipulations all you want to pretend to win an argument. The simple truth is that regardless of what setup and/or resources you have, if you applied them both to doing Briareus path or Chloris path from scratch to 90, you'll most likely finish Chloris path first.

However likely you are at getting cock blocked at Chukwa, you're just as likely to get cock blocked at Dhorme Khimaira. Where as you (almost) cannot get blocked out of Dragua. Kannagi + Almace is provably more popular than Verethragna + the other two that almost don't even count. Over time, you are more likely to be waiting on people to do the former than the latter.

Ever arguing you gotta do 7 NMs per Chloris is flat out stupid. There are FAR more efficient ways of making easily liquidable gil then buying Exorcised Skulls, etc. than individually farming them per Chloris.

Assuming you're buying everything from scratch, Bat/HectEyes/Scorp is always gonna take less time than three Gigas. Far less time. Dragua (which you can cleave) is more likely to take less time than Apademak (not to mention ANY setup that can kill Apademak easily can kill Dragua just as easily, but the reverse is not always true depending on whether you have stunners or not).

If you think Chukwa's gonna make up the difference, you go right ahead. Perhaps your servers are far bigger than mine, or none of you can be bothered to grab him during uncrowded times, but that guy sits up all the time. It's a gigantic turtle that isn't hard to proc, takes no time to kill, and respawns every 10-15 min.

Following your logic if you are ready to buy set for chloris for 290k to cut the time needed to farm it by let say half? You can just farm more money instead of even doing it and just buy buds from some merc group. Let's say chloris will on average drop a 1.7 bud and it cost you 285k and half the time. This means this half of time is worth to you more then 285k which means instead of farming chloris you could gather another 285k. Most mercenery groups sell chloris buds for 350-450k. 285k*2=570, 570/1.7=335 so instead of sweating in Tahrongi you can just farm gils by "autoswinging on an Abyssea NM, afk, go take a dump, and come back with a 100k item that'll sell it three hours."

Like I said You assuming a lot and doesn't see many possibilities. When I was doing my last Bria farm we had 4 ppl. NIN WAR THF WHM and when me and WAR were doing one gigas NM, THF (after poping his) already was farming 4 triggers for next one which basically completely remove both cost of the triggers and wasting time to farm them.

[Atoreis]

Hardly what I said, and I think you know it. Doesn't matter how long it takes, buying all three pops always takes less than a minute.

Btw, even if you utterly ignored Briareus pops' costs, 38 Apademaks at 170k each is comparable to cdgreg's listed price for 30 Chloris pops. And there's almost no way you'd actually finish 75 Apademak horns in 38 pops.

You completely ignoring the fact that even if you buy most of the triggers and assuming same crowd for both, Bria will still be faster and once again following your logic time is money and its easy to farm gils.

Taking selective info to make any argument maybe works for stupid ppl. On Bahamut chloris pop set costs 285k so 30 chloris would be equivalent of 50 apademak ( which means you only need 1.5 horn per Apa vs 1.66bud from chloris ).

[dasva]

And again lets look at how many people stop at 85. Pretty sure that was in the semi recent census too

[evilpaul]

Um, if you're not utterly destroying both Briareus and Chloris I think you're doing it wrong?

[Atoreis]

Ppl stop at 85 because another empy is cooler then few points of damage and stats but eventually ( probably when 95 strikes or when they get all 85 empy that they want ) most of them will upgrade their empyreans further.

[Atoreis]

Um, if you're not utterly destroying both Briareus and Chloris I think you're doing it wrong?

What? I dont get this at all? None said anything about actual fight. We only arguing about which pop set is faster and easier to get.

[evilpaul]

Ok, then. I misunderstood your point.

[dasva]

Ppl stop at 85 because another empy is cooler then few points of damage and stats but eventually ( probably when 95 strikes or when they get all 85 empy that they want ) most of them will upgrade their empyreans further.

Wasn't saying why do they just that they do so for now comparing lvl 80 stage nm to lvl 90 is kinda moot. Even if they eventually do they will have like you said other shiny empyreans and/or more lvls making it faster

[cdgreg]

What do people merit Group 2 for PLD?

[Scrooge]

Following your logic if you are ready to buy set for chloris for 290k to cut the time needed to farm it by let say half? You can just farm more money instead of even doing it and just buy buds from some merc group. Let's say chloris will on average drop a 1.7 bud and it cost you 285k and half the time. This means this half of time is worth to you more then 285k which means instead of farming chloris you could gather another 285k. Most mercenery groups sell chloris buds for 350-450k. 285k*2=570, 570/1.7=335 so instead of sweating in Tahrongi you can just farm gils by "autoswinging on an Abyssea NM, afk, go take a dump, and come back with a 100k item that'll sell it three hours."

This does what now to implicate Chloris path takes a lot longer?

your logic time is money and its easy to farm gils.

Wasn't me that originally brought up gil, was you who tried to pretend doing unnecessary and inefficient NMs in Tahrongi magically made Chloris path prohibitively expensive.

Nor was gil ever a cornerstone of what I was saying to begin with. I only mentioned it because you were clearly trying to imply that cost of buying Chloris pops somehow made Chloris path take longer and utterly ignoring the fact that the exact same thing could be said about Apademak+Briareus.

So what's this about you accusing me of leaving shit out to make a point? Funny cause that's precisely what you did.

You completely ignoring the fact that even if you buy most of the triggers and assuming same crowd for both, Bria will still be faster

I never said Chloris would ever be faster than Briareus. I implied that people overestimate how long Chloris takes, and -- relatively -- underestimate how long Briareus takes. There's a significant difference in what I said, and what you're apparently inferring. A difference that appears lost on you.

Bat/HectEyes/Scorp takes less time than the three Gigas. The only reason Chloris takes longer than Briareus is an extra turtle, which is not nearly as hard to claim as you are painfully trying to make it out to be.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Kannagi/Almace is a fair bit more popular than Verethragna/Rhongo/Redemp. You can check the census, or you can just walk around Port Jeuno one day and see for yourself. It's inarguable. You can pretend Ulhuadshi and Sobek are a wash through cleaving, but it's MUCH more likely a free Amun is sitting up then a free Gukumatz. And it's likely you'll more often be waiting on people doing Briareus Nms then you are Chloris NMs.

Any setup that kills Apademak in a reasonable time, you can take the same number of people and always kill Dragua faster. And once again, you can almost never get blocked out of Dragua, unlike Dhorme Khimaira.

There's no way Chukwa alone is gonna make Chloris/Ulhuadshi/Dragua path take longer than Briareus/Sobek/Apademak.

Btw, it's a NA prime time right now and there's... 54 people in Tahrongi. Omg, I bet it's IMPOSSIBLE to claim Chukwa!

@dasva: If people wish to leave their Empyreans at 85, that's their sideshow. But it's the exact same reason people used Foragers/Amemet+1 over an NQ Amemet, or Cerb Mantle+1 over anything, or Hachiryu Haidate over Usukane Hizayoroi or even Shura legs. Because it's better. And having an Empyrean go from 85 => 90 does significantly more for your overall performance than say Hachiryu Haidate ever could, and the price tag on that thing is like 12m.

[cdgreg]

Just ran the numbers for Apa stage on Odin since I still need to do it on my own kannigi mule. Going with the assumption of 1.7 drops per apa therefore 44 sets:
11.44m to buy all 3 items
9.68m to buy fragment + core, but farm HQ marid hide