Combat Skill up effects discussion: Martial Master, Prouesse Ring, Saltena, Poultry Pitaru

[Randorn]

http://www.ffxiah.com/screenshots/58886

http://www.ffxiah.com/screenshots/58886

Here is some data for skilling up my RDM slave. It seems that the spread isn't too varied and with more data sets for a variety of skills/levels/monster cons, the systematics may become clearer. If anyone wants to send me some log files, I'd be interested in seeing the data.

*Edit just realized I used the wrong food, going to skill up WAR weapons against Fortilaces with and without using food.

[Fwahm]

I've been maining Prouesse Ring on my Red Mage in Dominion Op parties, and from what I've noticed, it might increase how often you get skillups (seems like it, but I'm not putting full confidence in my eyeballing), but it seems like it definately raises the amount of skill you get per success. Since putting it on, I haven't gotten under 0.3 in a successful skillup on Enhancing since I put it on (323 enhancing currently).

[Deadgye]

Ragnarok just got martial master.. I'm debating on buying some of the skill up and also combining those 2 with my prouesse ring.. lol

[Ksandra]

Ragnarok just got martial master..

fuck ya. I just did war to 90 in an aby party about 2 weeks ago, and haven't been using it 'cause I've been slacking on getting skill ups. Now to cap out everything.

[Byrthnoth]

If anyone wants my mule's logs from skilling enhancing, send a PM. I have from RDM's 75 cap to the 90 cap on WHM logged.

[Byrthnoth]

Someone asked me for my logs, which prompted me to find them and look at them. Nothing concrete, mostly eyeballed, but here are some very basic impressions for a baseline:

WHM/(BLM or RDM), 258 to 315 Skill
Skillups: 203, average of ~0.28 per skillup.
11414 Barspell casts (1.8% skillup rate, or 1/200 Skill per cast average). - I cast a few other spells than Barspells (killed things in the week+ it took me to do this, but 11414 is the vast majority of enhancing magic I cast.

0.1 : 53 <--- Fairly constant rate, perhaps tails off towards the cap
0.2 : 39 <--- Fairly constant rate, perhaps tails off towards the cap a little
0.3 : 40 <--- Definitely looks more common towards the cap
0.4 : 33 <--- Pretty constant rate
0.5 : 38 <--- Pretty constant rate

Going purely by this, I'd guess there are two skillup processes. 0.4/0.5, or 0.1 to 0.3. They obviously can't be entirely independent, because no one ever does both at the same time, but that might be the extent of their interaction. 0.4/0.5 were responsible for 32.2 of my levels, while 0.1~0.3 were responsible for 25.1. I guess that means I started around 257.7. Assuming the 0.4/0.5 is what they added in their skillup patch, they actually more than doubled the skillup rate.

Keep in mind that this is not proof. This is just something I put together with 10 minutes and grep searches.

Another 10 minutes with the RDM data (276->294) came up with:
Skill Rises - 70 : average of ~0.28 per skillup. 3468 Spells casts.

0.1 : 14
0.2 : 19
0.3 : 13
0.4 : 12
0.5 : 12

1542 Enspells : 32 Skillups ~2%
1926 Barspells : 38 Skillups ~2%

There don't appear to be any differences between Enspells and Barspells, but a confounding factors are that I always cast Enspells as RDM/BLM and Barspells as RDM/WHM, and I spam Barspells faster than Enspells. This still hovers around 1/200th skill per spell cast.

[Churchill]

Has anyone got an increased rate of skill up for Guard or Shield using Saltena? Sword/Parry definitely gained a boon from it, but guard and shield did not. We just got Martial Master so I'm going to head out and keep trying but yeah.

I attempted to skill up using Saltena for an hour against Mandies in Altepa, and then for another hour where I fought the boss Mandy for almost another hour (same mob). During these 2 hours I received 1.3 skill ups.

I then did shield for 2 hours against mandies, alternating between being engaged and not being engaged (during the time I was engaged I got 7.3 parry skill ups and 11.2 sword kill ups) In these 2 hours I received 2.9 shield skill ups.

Edit: Did some more testing, though not of great length or size.

Each test was conducted with 200ish Guard skill on Korrigans. I was wearing -22evasion/PDT mix because I didn't feel at 90 I would need additional AGI, though I did swap in Sieryu/Osode for 15m to see if there was any change and didn't see a skill up (this was with only Saltena) so I went back to -evasion and PDT.

Each test had between 5-6 Korrigan's at a time, and I targeted a mob in the distance so I was in a combat stance and able to guard without having to actually keep hate/kill them.

First test was Saltena only, 25m:
Total 1.2 (0.5, 0.4, 0.3)

Second test was Martial master only, 25m:
Total 0.6 (0.3, 0.3)

Third test was Saltena+Martial master, 25m:
Total 1.7 (0.5, 0.4, 0.2, 0.4, 0.2)

Fourth test was Elshena + Martial Master, 20m:
Total 3.4 (0.5, 0.4, 0.1, 0.2, 0.5, 0.2, 0.4, 0.2, 0.4, 0.5)

Edit#2: Pulled a bunch of other random mobs after the last test and got another 1.6 skill ups.

I would say I'm familiar with guard skill up rates and the Elshena food had a good effect on that rate - in 10m I was able to get as many skill ups as I would without any bonus in an hour (if I was lucky). The Saltena food in every instance that I've used it has been little/no bonus over no food as far as Guard is concerned. It could be that I just got super lucky on the last test, and I admit none of them were of substantial size. Just figured I'd record what I got since I wanted to figure this out for myself.

[macross]

Food nor ring doesn't seem to work for throwing skillups either. I keep getting .1 .2 meh.

No idea if saltena works for over 200, seems to help though. Capped shield parry guard and all my weapons using ring and saltena. Saltena let me do guard from 305 to 354 in under 3 hours, but that could just be higher guarding rate.

[Churchill]

Well as far as I know, guard is still going to be a 5% proc.

I got about 8 guard skills in 30m yesterday before a DNC came over and AE'd my whole 7 mandies in Attowha.

Today I'm having completely different results (lol full moon) with Shield, though I did take it to Boyhada and got it 50 levels (205-255) in about 50m.

I went back out to Altepa and have got 54 skills so far (mix parry/shield, though shield is 310 now) in 48m. May have just been having issues before due to actual shield skill, while guard itself is still just abhorrent.

Edit: For a time reference, the "Unable to see the Byrgen" occurs every 10s.

Spoiler: show

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/2...0715060728.png

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3...0715060730.png

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/4...0715060732.png

[Randorn]

I don't think that the number of skill ups per amount of time is the important statistic, rather the number of skill ups per cast/attack landed.

[Invader]

Just going to throw this out there:
On my 90 RDM with crappy enhancing (280ish) I decided to skillup using pro1/shell1 in a loop, tossing refresh2 on whenever it wore. I let this go for a couple 10 hour sessions and looked back at my log to see the skillup frequency. It was getting a skillup, usually high (.4 or .5) but sometimes low (.1-3), every 10-15 mins or so, with the odd 5 minute interval skillup here and there.

I got to about 310 this way. Then I ate a poultry pitaru and...
I was getting the same skillup distribution every 5-10 minutes, with the occasional 2 minute interval here and there. Based on this, it seeeeeems like it DOUBLES your magic skillgain rate (i.e. magic skill gain rate +100%) :D

[Invader]

I don't think that the number of skill ups per amount of time is the important statistic, rather the number of skill ups per cast/attack landed.

You can use skillups/time if the rate of cast/attack landed is constant for both samples.

[macross]

Guard isn't 5% when you get it high lvl. Can tell when you guard with tactical guard cause you gain tp. You get tp super fast once you get high lvl, enough to do back to back ws etc.
I'm assuming it's the same as parry, which from parsing started out at 5% too. But as skill rose and I was closer to the mob's lvl, I parsed 9% parry. Patch came and kparser stopped working so I dunno how high parry rate was when I was almost at skill cap.

[Damane]

Has anyone got an increased rate of skill up for Guard or Shield using Saltena? Sword/Parry definitely gained a boon from it, but guard and shield did not. We just got Martial Master so I'm going to head out and keep trying but yeah.

I attempted to skill up using Saltena for an hour against Mandies in Altepa, and then for another hour where I fought the boss Mandy for almost another hour (same mob). During these 2 hours I received 1.3 skill ups.

I then did shield for 2 hours against mandies, alternating between being engaged and not being engaged (during the time I was engaged I got 7.3 parry skill ups and 11.2 sword kill ups) In these 2 hours I received 2.9 shield skill ups.

Edit: Did some more testing, though not of great length or size.

Each test was conducted with 200ish Guard skill on Korrigans. I was wearing -22evasion/PDT mix because I didn't feel at 90 I would need additional AGI, though I did swap in Sieryu/Osode for 15m to see if there was any change and didn't see a skill up (this was with only Saltena) so I went back to -evasion and PDT.

Each test had between 5-6 Korrigan's at a time, and I targeted a mob in the distance so I was in a combat stance and able to guard without having to actually keep hate/kill them.

First test was Saltena only, 25m:
Total 1.2 (0.5, 0.4, 0.3)

Second test was Martial master only, 25m:
Total 0.6 (0.3, 0.3)

Third test was Saltena+Martial master, 25m:
Total 1.7 (0.5, 0.4, 0.2, 0.4, 0.2)

Fourth test was Elshena + Martial Master, 20m:
Total 3.4 (0.5, 0.4, 0.1, 0.2, 0.5, 0.2, 0.4, 0.2, 0.4, 0.5)

Edit#2: Pulled a bunch of other random mobs after the last test and got another 1.6 skill ups.

I would say I'm familiar with guard skill up rates and the Elshena food had a good effect on that rate - in 10m I was able to get as many skill ups as I would without any bonus in an hour (if I was lucky). The Saltena food in every instance that I've used it has been little/no bonus over no food as far as Guard is concerned. It could be that I just got super lucky on the last test, and I admit none of them were of substantial size. Just figured I'd record what I got since I wanted to figure this out for myself.

I just finished capping my weapon skills on war and proceeded to finish shield and sword on pld. Just form eyeballing.

Elshana gave me a coniderable boost to parrying + shield skill ups while the sword skill ups remaind kind of normal. I was able to cap parrying on pld from 301 to 310 in 1hour~ and capped shield skill from 315 to 361. all on mandys in altepa (pulling 6-8 of them).

when I was skilling up my weapon skills on war I was only useing saltena, and the weapon skill gain rate was very good. but parrying was a no go, I couldnt cap parry from 298 to 305 in 3 hours only got it to 301, whiel I was able to cap parry on pld in one hour form 301 to 310

Mandys were most of the time DC on pld and on war.

[Churchill]

Yea once I switched to Elshima I did Shield from 205-361 in 2.5-3h and got 30 levels of parry, Guard still sucks though...but I probably just need to find the right mob. Like I said I did some of that Shield in Boyhada to get it up to ~Lv75 era skill and then went into Abyssea. I may need to do that for Guard as well.

[Okan]

Guard isn't 5% when you get it high lvl. Can tell when you guard with tactical guard cause you gain tp. You get tp super fast once you get high lvl, enough to do back to back ws etc.
I'm assuming it's the same as parry, which from parsing started out at 5% too. But as skill rose and I was closer to the mob's lvl, I parsed 9% parry. Patch came and kparser stopped working so I dunno how high parry rate was when I was almost at skill cap.

It is worth stacking some gear to get a higher skill while trying to boost your guard skill? I'm pretty low at the moment and after learning more about it, I definitely want to get it up as fast as possible.

[Churchill]

http://genomeffxi.livejournal.com/18269.html

Short answer: Yes.

[Ophannus]

Interestingly if you use a physical AoE WS on multiple mobs you have a chance to gain a skillup on each target that takes damage. With Saltena, when skilling up GSword and Parrying on PLD with AltepMandies I pulled 20~ of them and when I used Shockwave, I'd get about 2-3 0.5's and 1-2 0.1's off a single WS.

[Darkmagi]

Guard caps out at 15%, will floor to 5% on most things. Terrible skill overall.

[Kyte]

Yeah, I'm not understanding the logic behind "I want to get it up as fast as possible after learning about it," since if you actually learned about it you would know how much of a waste of time it is.