What's Better?

[Toth]

Well for VS these can be nice: http://www.ffxiah.com/item/10607/kacura-leggings-1

Also the usual Rancor Items on Back/Neck for crit.

Okay but question: In your opinion, is that critical rate + gear that more noticeable than constant bonuses from belts / gorgets / STR backpieces?

[Kyte]

Depends on your definition of noticeable- but I do get the impression that you're overestimating what those belts and gorgets are doing for VS and SS.

PUP's inability to equip Atheling makes the Rancor Mantle option all the more attractive

[Lyramion]

Okay but question: In your opinion, is that critical rate + gear that more noticeable than constant bonuses from belts / gorgets / STR backpieces?

For example a gorget would give you a little less than 5% dmg boost on VS first hit and a little more than 10% on SS first hit, while Crit% gives you a chance on every hit including DA/TAs to Crit. Crit% on Crit WS is usually worth it.

[Khamsin]

Hm, yep, messed that up. Was wrong on pld spreadsheet too. Fixed, new versions being uploaded now.

So back to your DPS spreadsheet, I downloaded it so I could mess with it, and added some new weapons (Store TP sword, OA2-4 sword, and the 99 versions of STR, MND, DA and OAT swords) and made sure the set ratio reflected only one set being used. I didn't bother adding all the gear I use, I just picked from what you had available and made sure the amount of DA% and Store TP matched what I had. I assume what comes out on top with one gear set will most likely come out on top with another.

I tried different combos, and your spreadsheet said that the STR sword with OA2-4 put out the most DPS (not counting enspell). This was versus two STR, a DA and STR, the Store TP and OA2-4, among other combos.

For reference, here's what I got (the numbers won't be entirely accurate since I wasn't using my actual gear, other than matching DA/Store TP/dual wield and the weapons, but the order should be consistent).

DPS includes melee + WS, using Requiescat.

On "Fodder":
STR + OA2-4: 112.821
DA + STR: 109.755
STR + STR: 108.136

On "Bukhis":
STR + OA2-4: 74.200
DA + STR: 72.957
STR + STR: 71.558

On "Qilin":
STR + OA2-4: 28.445
DA + STR: 29.262
STR + STR: 36.245

So until you get to VW level mobs, the STR + OA2-4 sword seems to stay on top. This is with Dia III, Haste, no berserk, no enspells, no temper, set ratio set to only one set, no atmas, no meds (even on Qilin), and anything else I could see to check. I entered the OA2-4 sword as nothing in OAT column, OAx = 60%, OA2 = 50%, OA3 = 33.3%, OA4 = 16.7%.

Adding things like enspells would only make the OA2-4 stronger, and since I have no plans to use melee RDM on Qilin, it seems STR + OA2-4 is the way to go for RDM... unless someone else has a combo I should check, or sees something I might have missed in the spreadsheet.

[fantasticdan]

Well for VS these can be nice: http://www.ffxiah.com/item/10607/kacura-leggings-1

Pup can't use the kacura set for some god forsaken reason, it gets sven instead...

@toth, besides the rancor collar suggestion, I would recommend pipilaka belt for all three ws.

Some things I'm unsure about myself are spiral ring vs epona's, and ocelo. vs athos's hat for SP (would gain set bonus in both cases.)

Also, I have no idea about the neck slot for shijin. I'm using agasaya's for lack of anything else to put there atm, but I'm not sure what I should be shooting for.

[SargentRemora]

For Evisceration and Rudra's Storm, Ocelomeh Headpiece +1 (DEX+13) or Anwig Salade (DEX+4 WSD+2% Crit Dmg+2%)?

[Neisan]

So back to your DPS spreadsheet, I downloaded it so I could mess with it, and added some new weapons (Store TP sword, OA2-4 sword, and the 99 versions of STR, MND, DA and OAT swords) and made sure the set ratio reflected only one set being used. I didn't bother adding all the gear I use, I just picked from what you had available and made sure the amount of DA% and Store TP matched what I had. I assume what comes out on top with one gear set will most likely come out on top with another.

I tried different combos, and your spreadsheet said that the STR sword with OA2-4 put out the most DPS (not counting enspell). This was versus two STR, a DA and STR, the Store TP and OA2-4, among other combos.

For reference, here's what I got (the numbers won't be entirely accurate since I wasn't using my actual gear, other than matching DA/Store TP/dual wield and the weapons, but the order should be consistent).

DPS includes melee + WS, using Requiescat.

On "Fodder":
STR + OA2-4: 112.821
DA + STR: 109.755
STR + STR: 108.136

On "Bukhis":
STR + OA2-4: 74.200
DA + STR: 72.957
STR + STR: 71.558

On "Qilin":
STR + OA2-4: 28.445
DA + STR: 29.262
STR + STR: 36.245

So until you get to VW level mobs, the STR + OA2-4 sword seems to stay on top. This is with Dia III, Haste, no berserk, no enspells, no temper, set ratio set to only one set, no atmas, no meds (even on Qilin), and anything else I could see to check. I entered the OA2-4 sword as nothing in OAT column, OAx = 60%, OA2 = 50%, OA3 = 33.3%, OA4 = 16.7%.

Adding things like enspells would only make the OA2-4 stronger, and since I have no plans to use melee RDM on Qilin, it seems STR + OA2-4 is the way to go for RDM... unless someone else has a combo I should check, or sees something I might have missed in the spreadsheet.

Adding in Temper at 15% minimum and 2-4 starts losing against any target not changing anything else. Assumed enspells were active.

[Khamsin]

Adding in Temper at 15% minimum and 2-4 starts losing against any target not changing anything else. Assumed enspells were active.

Enspells aren't, just because I don't know if they're implemented correctly in the spreadsheet. But you're right, I faked in 15% DA on one of the equip (since Temper as a buff wasn't an option) and it brings DA + STR ahead, followed very closely by STR + STR.

The STR + OA2-4 isn't far behind, though, without enspells.

EDIT: I just checked the "Use Enspell?" flag on, and I'm not sure if it's correct or not, but it brings STR + OA2-4 just barely above STR + STR again.

140.005 vs 139.436 on "Fodder", and 98.345 vs 97.501 on "Bukhis" with enspells active and 15% Temper. The DA + STR still wins slightly in both scenarios, however. By like less than .5 DPS.

It's a close race, here.

[Motenten]

Adding things like enspells would only make the OA2-4 stronger, and since I have no plans to use melee RDM on Qilin, it seems STR + OA2-4 is the way to go for RDM... unless someone else has a combo I should check, or sees something I might have missed in the spreadsheet.

Uploaded a new version yesterday that includes Temper, and a new version today that adds the additional weapons.

Temper DA% is based on specified enhancing skill, and uses the formula from BGWiki. Should be accurate.

Enspells include the proper formula for calculating base damage done, but don't factor in resists, since I don't have any decent idea on how to implement that yet. That will mean enspell damage will be overestimated on tougher mobs, but should be pretty accurate on lower level mobs (Fodder/Bukhis).

Obviously results are going to differ significantly with variations in skill (different Temper DA rate, different enspell damage) and other gear, so my results aren't 'correct', they're just showing where other differences may show up.

Enhancing: 496 (capped skill, merits, most available gear)
Enspell and Temper active

Fodder:
Str+OA2-4: 161.029
Str+OAT: 161.936
Str+WSDmg: 163.204
Str+Mnd: 164.094
Str+STP: 164.610
Str+Chimeric: 164.673
DA+Str: 169.308
Str+Str: 171.375


Bukhis:
Str+OA2-4: 113.722
Str+OAT: 114.186
Str+WSDmg: 114.728
Str+Mnd: 115.565
Str+STP: 115.566
Str+Chimeric: 117.623
DA+Str: 119.236
Str+Str: 121.892


So as Enhancing skill approaches max, it seems that pretty much every other option surpasses the OA2-4 sword. If Temper isn't used, however, OA2-4 ends up being one of the best options (numbers not shown).

[Khamsin]

Uploaded a new version yesterday that includes Temper, and a new version today that adds the additional weapons.

Temper DA% is based on specified enhancing skill, and uses the formula from BGWiki. Should be accurate.

Enspells include the proper formula for calculating base damage done, but don't factor in resists, since I don't have any decent idea on how to implement that yet. That will mean enspell damage will be overestimated on tougher mobs, but should be pretty accurate on lower level mobs (Fodder/Bukhis).

Obviously results are going to differ significantly with variations in skill (different Temper DA rate, different enspell damage) and other gear, so my results aren't 'correct', they're just showing where other differences may show up.

Enhancing: 496 (capped skill, merits, most available gear)
Enspell and Temper active

Fodder:
Str+OA2-4: 161.029
Str+OAT: 161.936
Str+WSDmg: 163.204
Str+Mnd: 164.094
Str+STP: 164.610
Str+Chimeric: 164.673
DA+Str: 169.308
Str+Str: 171.375


Bukhis:
Str+OA2-4: 113.722
Str+OAT: 114.186
Str+WSDmg: 114.728
Str+Mnd: 115.565
Str+STP: 115.566
Str+Chimeric: 117.623
DA+Str: 119.236
Str+Str: 121.892


So as Enhancing skill approaches max, it seems that pretty much every other option surpasses the OA2-4 sword. If Temper isn't used, however, OA2-4 ends up being one of the best options (numbers not shown).

Yeah, I was noticing that when I was playing with the spreadsheet, I changed a few gear options and all of a sudden STR x2 pulled ahead. Well, not that I can complain, STR swords are easier to make than OA2-4.

[Motenten]

Just general FYI, added all the new gear to the various spreadsheets (except for rdm, which doesn't really get anything DD-related) so people can play with them.

[Fwahm]

Fulgurante (56 DMG, 480 delay, OA2-4) vs Kauriraris (118 DMG, 456 delay, WS damage +10%) with 5/5 Resolution, outside abyssea and voidwatch.

Assume 178 STR on WS, and DRK/SAM.

[Kyte]

The latter; you can pretty consistently assume that OA2-4 weapons are not good.

[Toth]

Sorry to repeat my question before but DEX rings or Epona for SP and SS? Also, is a dex earring going to make any noticeable improvement to justify the price?

[Seol]

Since we are on the topic of rdm melee and what not, I'm sure there's going to be alot of variables and such, but assuming DW swords and caped gear haste + haste spell and enspell I on; on Earring choices, Brutal + Suppa or Brutal + Hollow (enspell +3 dmg) or Suppa + hollow? Assuming fodder mobs, nothing that would resist enspell dmg.

[dasva]

Don't forget fencers ring

Speaking of enhancing enspell dmg... what about Chimeric Fleuret?

[Motenten]

Hollow beats Brutal if you're dual-wielding OA2-4's; ties with Brutal if you're using one OA2-4; any other weapons, Brutal+Suppa always wins over any combo with Hollow.

Fencer's Ring is pretty good. Not many ring options that will beat it.

Chimeric Fleuret is one of the top sword options (after Str+Str and DA+Str, not counting relic/emp/mythic) with high enhancing skill and Temper.

[Diddy Kong]

Just general FYI, added all the new gear to the various spreadsheets (except for rdm, which doesn't really get anything DD-related) so people can play with them.

Did you modify Ascetic's Fury to have x2 attack bonus?

[Neisan]

EDIT: ascetic's does have the attack bonus on it.

[Diddy Kong]

Ah, righteous, thanks.