What's Better?

[GImpers]

For THF, what's better to offhand with Coruscanti? Lux Pugio or Triplus? Or, is there a better option?

[Neisan]

Lux and Fire Tokcha should both beat Triplus, Dex (if you really need accuracy) would also beat it I imagine, and even agi Tokcha is very close to it.

[Ophannus]

So 3% TA beats out +5% Damage from Loki?
And AF3+2 hands and Af3+2 beats everything else? Interesintg cuz with that setup I'm losing a ton of haste, like at least 5 from body, 4 from hands and 3 from feet with:

Ocelo. Rancor Suppa Brutal
Toci AF3+2 Epona Rajas
Atheling Twilight AF3+2 Af2+2

That's only like 18% haste :/

[noodles355]

EDIT: Attempted to replicate your results; redid with set bonus, wasn't being considered for Oce/Toci's at first. Raider's+2 head/Toci's is ahead of Oce/Toci's by like 2 DPS on mine, although my total DPS is slightly lower than yours.

On the spreadhseet AFAIK Toci/Oce set bonus isn't counted for. I edited Oce/Oce+1 with set bonus into mine as new armor.

Lux and Fire Tokcha should both beat Triplus, Dex (if you really need accuracy) would also beat it I imagine, and even agi Tokcha is very close to it.

Agi Thokcha beats triplus if you use Exenterator.

So 3% TA beats out +5% Damage from Loki?

3%TA and 13Str and 2Dex and 16-17Att.

So 3% TA beats out +5% Damage from Loki?
And AF3+2 hands and Af3+2 beats everything else?

AF3+2 Hands and AF2+2 feet beat everything else in the sets I mentioned in the post, which are (excluding comninations of Nomkhapa Mittens, which I didn't concider) are the best TP sets for thief for /Dnc against fodder with Chiefkabobs (Mithra, Max Str/Dagger merits). I believe the results will be slightly different for /war against hard mobs, but concidering the most stuff you take a thf too is fodder content, "meh".

[Darkmagi]

How about for something like nyzul(/war with mandau if that makes a difference) with capped magic haste? That's the only content I'm serious about a thfs DPS on right now.

[Ophannus]

The difference of 8% haste doesn't make much of an impact for THF then? Was following the mantra that capped haste should be a priority...

[noodles355]

8%? Af3+2 head/body is better than NQ ocelomeh+Toci's for TP. Hell, unless you are at a perfect point where ocelomeh adds a full 10% crit from dDex, AF3+2 head+Toci's is better than NQ Ocelomeh+Toci's. So now we can assume you should be using Af3+2 head/body unless you have Nyzul F100 body (maybe F80, will have to re-check) + twilight belt and af3+2 (or F100) legs, you should be at at least 23% haste.

Say Af2+2 feet are about 4.5% dot increase (16>19% TA, reduced cus of double attack, boosted cus of the TA+ damage, cancel them out as just rough estimation). 3% haste on feet going from 23% to true 25% (230>256, 62.6/60%) is 4.3%, it's believable. Thief has low attack and their DPS is skewed towards TP damage phase, concidering AF3 hands are half way between a Hauby+1 and a Adaberk, it's not that unbelieveable that it would beat 2~3% haste on the hand slot with only gear and haste spell.

@DarkMagi, haven't compared /war against Fodder yet, but you can assume that everything I wrote will at least translate to berserk down, maybe it'll be slightly skewed as using RCBs in nyzul, I'll double check later. As far as the sets, Brego may beat AF3+2 hands with berserk up, but feet/head/body comparisons should still be fairly accurate I'd guess.

[Gun-it]

Body for Drakesbane? Ace's mail or Zahak's? Or I am overlooking something else?

Wondering for VW where I don't need +2 for my Xhit.

[Aragon of Odin]

Few weeks ago Motenten had posted in favor of Oce+1/Toci's, was in just an error on his math then?

[Motenten]

On the spreadhseet AFAIK Toci/Oce set bonus isn't counted for. I edited Oce/Oce+1 with set bonus into mine as new armor.

The easiest way to handle that is to simply enter the set bonus effect on the blue set bonus line. 3% in the TA column.

Few weeks ago Motenten had posted in favor of Oce+1/Toci's, was in just an error on his math then?

Thf gear choices tend to fluctuate a lot based on lots of secondary factors. Mob target, how close you are to the sweet spot in dex/crit%, how much haste you have, how much the set bonus is contributing, SATA usage patterns, etc. It's very difficult to find a single "best" gear set, as lots of gear switches places based on subtle changes.

[pancakesandsex]

I think Oce/Toci or even Oce/Oce won with dex merits. I have to double check it.

Ok re-ran the following:

Twashtar 90/Kila +2 (fire)/Raider
Ocelomeh +1/Agasaya/Brutal/Suppanomimi
Toci's Harness (set)/Raiders +2/Rajas/Epona's
Atheling/Twilight/Raiders +2/Assassin +2

vs

Twashtar 90/Kila +2 (fire)/Raider
Raiders +2/Agasaya/Brutal/Suppanomimi
Raiders +2/Raiders +2/Rajas/Epona's
Atheling/Twilight/Raiders +2/Assassin +2

All buffs off, no food as a base. I have dex merits.

First set seems to win on anything stronger than a dynamis DC pretty consistently as you add buffs. Second set seems to win easier on fodder, but loses as you switch to high defense/level mobs. the difference on fodder/dc is less than 5 dps in favor of raiders with haste, samba and YCB on. The difference on quilin is more than 8 dps in favor of ocelo/toci

[noodles355]

That sounds about right. I remember looking it up and Oce/Toci losing and winning in different situations but all being fairly close. AF3/AF3 winnign on fodder makes sense, that's what the comparisons above are about. It's probably fair to say that most of the content relevant to thf will be involving fodder mobs of one form or another though (Dynamis, Nylulz, etc) over high buff high level NMs.

[kamugi]

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/r5n/newtoy.jpg

How do I work this into a restraint up set and keep AF3+2 hands on ukon WAR? Or are AF3+2 hands not worth it anymore? It also needs to be better then my current restraint up set.

Current Sets:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/217122
Restraint up.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/218925
Restraint down.

Also: Is there better stuff I could be using then this? Been awhile since I bothered gearing anything or paying much attention.




Just a guess but I would assume:

For an ukon War:

3Str 21Att 2%DA In TP Phase + 3Att on WS

Berserk down set

3% Crit in TP Phase + 7Str 3% Crit on WS?

Berserk up set.
Provided your tp/ws damage split is around 50/50 and you can use both sets with or without AF3+2 hands for restraint bonus.
EDIT: And if you don't want to be that complicated, go for #2. And if the split is not 50/50, go for #1 if TP damage is higher, #2 if WS damage is higher.

For Upheaval, Shadow Breastplate with +1TA +3Zanshin vs Are's cuirass? my real question actually is: Is the difference between them marginal or one is noticeable superior over the other? I have both but I'm running into inventory space troubles, and I already carry Shadow B.plate for regen set.

Augment the breastplate til you get 2% TA, shouldn't be to hard, then it will always be better then ares.

[noodles355]

Berserk down set
Berserk up set.
Provided your tp/ws damage split is around 50/50 and you can use both sets with or without AF3+2 hands for restraint bonus.
EDIT: And if you don't want to be that complicated, go for #2. And if the split is not 50/50, go for #1 if TP damage is higher, #2 if WS damage is higher.

Involved a grip choice so couldn't use as serk up/down sadly. WS damage phase seems to be always higher so will go with second. Cheers for the info.

[kamugi]

WS damage phase seems to be always higher

Ya, my WAR always seems to always be at 60% WS 40% TP for damage split if I'm not in Voidwatch, there it's like low 80%'s WS 20% TP lol.

Speaking of Ukko's sets. I just updated mine with what I assume should be the best currently unless I'm missing something.
Anyone have anything to add that should be better?

Abyssea/Voidwatch/Mighty Strikes/Adding DEX doesn't increase crit rate Ukkos set.
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/217120

Having 135 DEX caps dDEX Ukkos set. (For like dynamis, einherjar, limbus, salvage, other old content I can't think of)
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/217121

Upheavel Set:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/251377

I'm thinking I should maybe switch apathy gorget for the 6str 6vit necklace, 7 vit ring for the 5 str 5 vit ring, and maybe AF3+2 head for Mekira-oto+1?
For mighty strikes Upheaval after a 300 TP Ukkos, maybe Heca gloves+1 would be better then AF2+2?
And I'm sure AF3+2 shoes would be way better then dilarms, but is there anything else I am missing?

EDIT: I can break the Abyssea/VW set apart into 1 set for A and 1 for VW if I can gain anything from doing so. Just let me know.

[Garka]

Whats the top notch Hundred Fists gear set nowadays?

[Churchill]

You need 14STP minimum to 6hit your Ukon, to do so, 3TA is going to have to outweigh what you sacrifice to maintain that.

The only way to do it would be with Phorcys gear, and I mean Phorcys. You get two options from that set that give you STP, 5STP/7haste Head | 6STP/6Haste Legs. 11 from Phorcys/5Rajas/1Brutal=17 | 13 haste from Phorcys/6Nin/Phasmida/5AF3feet/1Blitz=25, though you could use a Bullwhip belt for -50hp and capped haste.

Your WS sets need some retooling as well, you WS in no STP to start and you're using two elemental belts. Atoreis can argue the pants all day; to save space they are fine but you should still have Avant+1 available if that's not the concern.

Edit: I use mine restraint down for this reason, Faz head+1/Brego/Goading to cover Ebody STP loss

[noodles355]

Is Rose strap a terrible option? Rose/Tyrant/Rajas/Brutal is enough STP. Wouldn't the 3% TA alone weigh out the 3% Crit from grip? Not concidering I thought I read that Upheaval > Ukko's unless Blood Rage was up since the nerf. Is that still true?

[kamugi]

Is Rose strap a terrible option? Rose/Tyrant/Rajas/Brutal is enough STP. Wouldn't the 3% TA alone weigh out the 3% Crit from grip? Not concidering I thought I read that Upheaval > Ukko's unless Blood Rage was up since the nerf. Is that still true?

I really doubt, even after the nerf, Upheaval from 99 Bravura could beat Ukkos from a 99 Ukon. If it can though, please clear it up for me, so I can sell all the heavy metal I have clogging up my inventory and go buy a Bravura instead.

The problem with rose strap is that you lose 3% DA from armada and 3% crit from grip to gain 3% triple attack and 10 attack during TP phase, and just straight lose 3% crit rate during Ukkos.

You need 14STP minimum to 6hit your Ukon, to do so, 3TA is going to have to outweigh what you sacrifice to maintain that.

Phorcys head, 5STP/7haste
bullwhip belt

Good idea, That would work. It's sad that's the only way though lol. Bullwhip belt is kinda scary, cause I die a lot when Im not 2boxing my WHM anyway =|

Your WS sets need some retooling as well, you WS in no STP to start and you're using two elemental belts. Atoreis can argue the pants all day; to save space they are fine but you should still have Avant+1 available if that's not the concern.

Space is not a concern for me, I have 3 jobs, WAR, NIN and Fisher, I would have like 300 open spaces if it wasn't taken up by minnows.
So get Avant+1 and some other belt, which belt? Windbuffet? Or is something better that I'm missing? Tell me what is second best for belt also please, in case best takes me a bit to get ahold of.

I use mine restraint down for this reason, Faz head+1/Brego/Goading to cover Ebody STP loss

That restraint down set looks nice, totally stealing it.

[Khamsin]

What's a good third atma for 1-handed elemental WS brew? I assume the first two are going to be the appropriate elemental attack atma and Smiting Blow for TP Bonus, but since an additional +50 MAB does very little in the face of 900 MAB, what about the third atma? I'm also assuming that, for 2-handed elemental WS brews, that Griffon Claw would be the third atma.