What's Better?

[dasva]

Except that would take alot more time and he said he was having a hard time finding that many plates

[kamugi]

Except that would take alot more time and he said he was having a hard time finding that many plates

That doesn't make it not-doable, just means you have to spend more for them or gather them slower.


EDIT::::::
Anyway, let's focus on the good question:

So whats better? 99 Bravura spamming upheavel or 99 Ukon spamming Ukkos?
Assuming the accuracy on Bravura isn't needed to cap hit rate, since that would obviously skew everything into Bravuras favor and that's the one time Bravura would definitely be better.

[buddyslack]

Current ukko's set:
ukko/claymore/x/ravager
mekira/ele/vulcan's/brutal
grim/heca+1/pyro/raja
rancor/winbuffet/avant+1/afv3+2

what upgrade should I get first mekira+1 or grim+1

Also, for older content, I rad you need 135? Dex to cap dDex, should I make a dex set for old content or stick with the above? Baring in mind I dont have heca legs or adaberk

[kamugi]

Mekira +1 gains 1 STR and 5 Att, Grim gains 1 STR and 2 ATT.

135 DEX for old content is a random number that should cap crit rate on pretty much everything old content. It's a little high for some stuff, and might be a little low for like, the DC THF/NIN mobs in dynamis or something, but works out good enough if you know when to not use it. (My set is only 135 DEX for mithras btw, I assume that's what you looked at)

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Odin/Kaerin#item-sets

[Byrthnoth]

So whats better? 99 Bravura spamming upheavel or 99 Ukon spamming Ukkos?

I'd like to answer a simpler question first. Given 99 Ukon, will Ukko's or Upheaval do more damage with your FFXIAH gearsets? Tbqh, I get that they're approximately tied. Ukko's leads a little bit on hard content especially if you have extra crit rate from somewhere (like Champion's Tonic/Blood Rage).

Bravura's offensive advantages over Ukon are, as I see them:
1) 488 delay gives 13.2 TP/hit, while 482 delay gives 13 TP/hit. I'd argue that Bravura/Upheaval can be 5-hit because of this (and extra TP from Upheaval), while Ukon/Ukko's does not have the luxury without making pretty major sacrifices.
2) The Acc, as already mentioned
3) Double Damage proc rate does not depend on aftermath, meaning there is no activation time or chance of unenhanced swings.
4) Higher base damage and DPS than Ukon, though the extra STR from Ukon effectively trumps this in all cases.

Bravura/Rose/____/White Tathlum
Zelus/Rancor/AF3/Brutal
AF3+2/Ogier's/Tyrant/Rajas
Atheling/Goading/AF3+2/AF3+2

4+2+1+8+10+4+5+5 + 15 (/SAM) = 54 STP -> 20.3 TP/hit

Upheaval = 4 hits, if you are willing to 2 extra hits connect, then you would need 25 STP during WS to make the x-hit. The only change to your WS set would be Spiral -> Rajas and Pole -> Rose. It looks like an attractive option to me.

I don't know which is better, but the question isn't particularly simple. The answer is also very likely to change as SE continues to release improved STP gear.

[kamugi]

....way to make it so much worse pandaman

EDIT:

Ogier's Gloves

This should ruin the sets usefulness if restraint is up.

[buddyslack]

Yeah it might have been your set I seen, just seen a post on ffxiah forum talking about capping dDex. My set would have to make quiet a few sacrifices, something like:

ukon/claymore/x/ravager
heca+1/ele/vulcan/brutal
zahak's/afv3+2/pyro/rajas
rancor/windbuffet/byakko/heca+1

which would get me to 135 dex

or swop winbuffet>piplika heca feet>afv3+2 for 137 dex

question is, is it worth it?

[kamugi]

ukon/claymore/x/ravager
af3+2 or mekira+1/ele/vulcan/brutal
zahak's/afv3+2/7 dex ring/rajas
rancor/piplaka/byakko/af3+2

Something like this would probably work better.

Not sure what this would be for you, but probably better then what you posted. 7 DEX ring gooooooo, also really try to get heca subligear+1 to switch with byakkos.

By capping ddex all you're gaining is 15% crit rate, which depending on your attack is like 8% -> 14% damage. If you're giving up more then that to cap ddex it's not worth it. And since it's really only for weaker mobs you have to assume your attack is pretty high compared to their defense, if using food, which you should be, even if its just mithkabobs, so I'd expect to be towards the low end around 10% most of the time.

[buddyslack]

oh yeah, completely forgot about dex+7 ring, have one for thf, and last nidhogg dropped dalmy abj only

[Churchill]

But you could sell currency and buy shells and plates and whatever else.

So whats better? 99 Bravura spamming upheavel or 99 Ukon spamming Ukkos?
Assuming the accuracy on Bravura isn't need to cap hit rate, since that would obviously skew everything into Bravuras favor and that's the one time Bravura would definitely be better.

Qilin
Chaos/Marchx2/Haste/Berserk/Aggressor/Restraint/Hasso/Dia3/RCB

Used Phorcys Body for Ukkos, Phorcys Hands for Upheaval, rest of the gear TP/WS is standard/best in slot.

Without Phorcys gear, Bravura is ahead WS wise by 11 damage, and Ukon still wins via DPS. No Blood Rage was factored in, which pushes Ukon's numbers up nearly 100 points DPS wise and 300 points in WSavg.

Results	Set 1 - Ukonvasara99
Melee damage per round	 533	
Melee DPS	                         295.538	
		
Rounds/WS	                         4.78	
WS Dmg	                                 2726	
		
Total Cycle Damage	                 5273	
Total Cycle Time	                 637	
		
Total DPS	                         496.666	

Results	Set 2 - Bravura99
Melee damage per round	 471
Melee DPS		                 253.158
		
Rounds/WS		                 4.63
WS Dmg		                         2680
		
Total Cycle Damage		         4858
Total Cycle Time		         636
		
Total DPS		                 458.087

[Byrthnoth]

This should ruin the sets usefulness if restraint is up.

I don't think so, really. With a 480ish delay weapon, each first-swing hit with Restraint up is about +1% WS damage (+2% with AF3+2 hands), so you're sacrificing about 4% WS damage (perhaps closer to 3.5%). That pales in comparison to the effective +16% WS damage you get moving from a 6 to 5-hit.

[kamugi]

I don't think so, really. With a 480ish delay weapon, each first-swing hit with Restraint up is about +1% WS damage (+2% with AF3+2 hands), so you're sacrificing about 4% WS damage (perhaps closer to 3.5%). That pales in comparison to the effective +16% WS damage you get moving from a 6 to 5-hit.

I thought it was about 2% damage per swing, my bad.
I guess you're only giving up 10-11%~ damage to do a 5 hit with Bravura then comparing it to my restraint up set.

What do you think of your set compared to something like this:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/251704
Except with maybe phorcys gloves (9 str 17? att, 2 da), or valk guantlets? (we'll say they have 4acc 5att with the augments of 6 or 7 str and 3% DA, since that's pretty realistic if you try and don't get cursed with bad luck) Also: Valk is augmented with 3% TA.

This set could probably do better then your 5 hit with capped haste.

[kamugi]

By capped haste I mean with hasso, haste spell and double marches, and I'm thinking it would be better without lots of haste also.

EDIT::: Sorry meant to edit old post not make a new one.

[Byrthnoth]

Okay, I was just pulling stuff out of memory. Anyway, I don't think that Ukon is really super duper far from also 5-hitting. Some day SE will release a 4 STP earring and we'll all shit a brick and the power balance will reverse.

[Churchill]

It's a 4.28% boost assuming 5 hit, bravura, and no double attacks (each attack round is a single swing). It's a 10.7% boost assuming 6 hit, bravura, and no double attacks.

You would need to make up for 6.5% WSDMG in WS frequency using the 5 hit, and those numbers are actually lower because WAR overTP's due to double attack like a mofo.

Edit: In 100 swings, of those 23 would normally be double attack rounds, so 77 would be counted towards any restraint bonus
Edit again: realized Upheaval actually has enough hits to be a true 5hit, redid shit again, fuck me. Same buffs as Ukon99vsBrav99

5hit:
38962 melee damage
55923 wsdmg
95885 total damage

6hit:
40964 melee damage
50225 wsdmg
91189 total damage

Edit2: As far as I can tell, 5hit Ukon is still behind 6hit primarily because of fSTR loss, 8%critical hit rate loss during tp and the fact that 5 and 6 hit on Ukon really mean WS+5 and WS+6. Upheaval allows for true 5/6hit, so the differences are greater. Bravura doesn't normally use (afaik) a Claymore grip, and doesn't require Houyi's gorget in the neck slot so the difference between TP gear sets is really the goading belt/Ogier's swap.

Hopefully my math isn't super fucked.

Edit3: And final edit, if my math isn't super fucked, I'm p.sure the 5 hit Bravura would topple the 6 hit Ukon.

[kamugi]

Okay, I was just pulling stuff out of memory.

Ah, I was just bringing it up because this is most likely the best possible existing 6 hit build you can do with bravura (switch to claymore grip if using ukon)

[Byrthnoth]

DAs don't build restraint credit, it's first hits only. They actually lower the value of restraint per WS.

[noodles355]

Edit: Nvm.

[Atoreis]

I would actually consider Ragnarok as best WAR DD weapon maybe?
This set let you 6hit with 3/5 Resolution hits connected.

It has probably no chance vs high def/evasion ones mobs but I could see it wins for fodder/medium ones?

[Churchill]

Reso isn't actually that bad if you get over epeen gear and actually wear Twilight Mail in the body slot. The 25 ACC does wonders.

I was playing around with MS sets for Upheaval/Reso, Reso came far ahead even with just a Jingang sword.