What's Better?

[Mojo]

No, I brought up Ninja because RR/GH is a clear choice for that job if you have Kannagi. Your base critical hit rate would be 75%. If empyreon weaponskills had a base critical hit rate bonus of 25% (the amount required in order for Gnarled Horn to experience the kind of losses turtle was referring to), then anybody using Blade: Hi (granted they were using RR/GH) would observe a 100% critical hit rate (which probably isn't so considering how it would have been brought up before given the number of people with Kannagi.)

[Yugl]

So, in your opinion, any job with a crit WS should be using GH?

GH/RR/AoA is the best for WAR, MNK, DRG, NIN, PUP?

He's not making that claim at all. He's saying that most NINs use RR+GH. Since you have 55% critical hit rate with just RR, capped dDEX, and merits, it would take more than 25% critical hit rate bonus to begin cutting into GH's critical hit bonus since you cannot exceed 100% critical hit rate (55+25 = 80; GH's critical hit bonus is 20%). If all Empyrean WS's critical hit rates are the same and it is the case that these WSs have more than 25% critical hit rate, then NINs using Kannagi would witness 100% critical hit rate, which would have been reported by now.

[Deader2818]

Ah ok, that makes sense, ive just never heard anyone suggest GH for war as before the crit damage update, it was VV/RR/AoA and after it turned into SS/RR/AoA so was confused.

[Arthars]

just to support the analysis

even if i use rancor neck to WS in GH and RR, i dont see 100% crit rate on hi

[Mojo]

You don't need a better way of analyzing it, you need to quit having such a hardon for sticking to your preconceived notion of what is better and look at the math. Your numbers already show GH loses, and you aren't accounting for the crit rate from blood rage. Kannagi has nothing to do with anything, I have no idea why you think every emp WS would have the same crit rate bonus.

I began this discussion by saying that I would be interested in seeing someone justify one atma was better than the other. The only time I even said Gnarled Horn was better was when I was giving a cursory evaluation on anecdotal observations of my own in contrast to those of others (and outright said that it was a cursory anecdotal observation.) So really you ought to take some of your own advice in regards to preconceived notions considering how you even perceive what I'm asserting.

My math didn't show that Gnarled Horn loses, it showed that if you completely butter it up in favor of Sanguine Scythe then Sanguine Scythe wins by a pitifully small amount, but that when realistic situations are considered (mob level and uncapped cRatio) it starts to swing more in favor of Gnarled Horn. Either way it should be clear that it's not such a simple choice to make and that you're certainly an idiot for so baselessly asserting that one atma is better than the other.

[Mercilessturtle]

Your math favors GH, and still shows SS winning. Throwing a hissy fit doesn't change that. Saying "SS only wins by a little bit so it doesn't count" doesn't change that. Claiming that choosing more damage over less damage isn't a simple choice doesn't change that. If you had math showing the widely accepted atma choices are not optimal, then I and I am sure many others would be glad to hear about it. But showing math that supports the current status quo while claiming it proves it wrong isn't super convincing.

[Chrian]

whats better in abyssea two demon rings with the mab+1~3 , magical critical hit damage 1~3, or two int +7 rings?

[Atoreis]

I tho :Hi crit rate was already tested..

Some test shown 15/20/25% respectively which means with GH and RR you are looking at ~90%crit rate on WS so 100% crit rate should be only with 300%TP and those atmas.

Idk why you account of blood rage as an argument for GH.

Even assuming some low crit rate bonus on ws (ie: 10%) It would be 55+10+20+3(head) so thats cutting GH to 12% and if this crit bonus on Ukko is about 20% then GH is giving you close to nothing on blood rage.

I dont have Ukko's but I plan to test crit rate of Vsmite soon so maybe instead of guessing just go to Abyssea get RR+SS+sea daughter. Cleave mobs to ~5% and Ukko's them down for few hours

[Gustave]

What's the minimum augments for Hecatomb Mittens +1 to beat:
Ravager's Muffler's +2 - Raging Rush

Raider's Armlets +2 unstacked Evisceration

Also does the first Raid. Armlets +2 increase SA only account for the first hit of SA Evis?

[Atoreis]

What's the minimum augments for Hecatomb Mittens +1 to beat:
Ravager's Muffler's +2 - Raging Rush

Raider's Armlets +2 unstacked Evisceration

Also does the first Raid. Armlets +2 increase SA only account for the first hit of SA Evis?

No other hit then first get SA bonus damage from DEX so I have no idea how you can even ask XD

[dasva]

Idk part of the reasoning I'd use GH for Hi also is consistency. With so much of your dmg front loaded into a single hit the odds for you not critting a significant portion of your ws and therefore doing incredibly weak dmg is much higher than other ones like say Jin. And personally I'd give up a little less overall dmg in order to see alot less 1k dmg ws lol.

Also why not see 100% crit rate His? If you really have 90% crit with just GH and RR at 100% tp it is rather easy to boost it to 100%. I can think of 18% crit rate worth of gear off the top of my head that aren't horrible peices in those slots for Hi. Granted some is kinda newish and some most people wont have or can't be bothered to farm for but 10% should be easy

[dasva]

No other hit then first get SA bonus damage from DEX so I have no idea how you can even ask XD

Maybe he just didn't know what the enhancement was. It's entirely within the realm of possiblities that SE makes an "enhance SA" peice that actually makes it so more than 1 hit in a row gets the bonus. Other than the fact that would be totallly broken of course but still not as broken as lvl 1 thf/whms doing 99999 dmg cures to lvl 90 mobs

[Atoreis]

Das that is not a point here. He was writing about no reports of 100% crit on :Hi with gear that most ppl use and by that he was trying to say that base crit rate on :Hi is not that big and he wanted to transfer that conclusion over Ukko's.
First of all like I said no reports of 100% crit on :hi were made because most ppl should have 90% crit rate in usual :Hi gear at 100TP. Second of all Ukko's seems to have higher base crit rate than :Hi. Third of all he was arguing about Blood rage being in favor of GH when its completely reverse. Even with SS+RR+af3Feet+trait you have 78%crit damage so blood rage will have full use of +20%crit damage while with RR+Rage+af3head you are sitting at 78% crit rate and only assuming 0-2% base crit rate on Ukko's will allow GH to take full effect which is obviously fail assumption.

[Atoreis]

Oh I wasn't arguing Ukko. Though I'd get firm testing on it's crit rate before start mathing it to be better and such. Then again Bloodrage isn't up all that much with only 30 sec duration and 5 min recast. And what happens when your silly kannagi nin uses warcry right after and overwrites it huh!?!

Its 1min with af3+2 body and it's not about how long it is but Turtle and me wanted to point out fails in assumptions on which Mojo's conclusions were made.

[Churchill]

Not exactly sure why we're comparing two different weapon skills and claiming what's good for sally is good for nancy. If Ukko's follow's the path of 90% of the other critical WS's of the 2H nature, then it's safe to say that its crit hit modifier is higher than anything :Hi's would be.

[Atoreis]

Not exactly sure why we're comparing two different weapon skills and claiming what's good for sally is good for nancy. If Ukko's follow's the path of 90% of the other critical WS's of the 2H nature, then it's safe to say that its crit hit modifier is higher than anything :Hi's would be.

You know this, I know this, Turtle know this but Mojo seems to ignore this in favor of GH so I used :Hi base crit rate as lowest possibility for Ukko's just to show GH will lose even then.

[Sylvrdragon]

Jishnu's Waist piece:

Thaizi's or Pipilaka? (Or other if something else is better)

[Mattaru7]

Str kila+2/str kila+2, kila+2/twilight, kila+2/triplus, angr/kila+2, or something else? I know this has been asked before but I thought I saw all of the first 3 given as answers given.

[Botosi]

For a well geared Blm would it be better to Refresh/Haste yourself etc. in Owleyes or Seveneyes?

[dasva]

Jishnu's Waist piece:

Thaizi's or Pipilaka? (Or other if something else is better)

I'd do the elemental belt. If not then thaizi inside pipilaka outside.