What's Better?

[Nightfyre]

I remember that post, but the only form of OAT that (afaik) stacks with double attack is Jailer weapons so I don't think that answers my question.

[Scrooge]

Perhaps I misunderstood your question because I was thinking of OAT in terms of Jailer weapons. I thought you were asking if the "Augments Dual Wield" swing can proc extra swings itself.

I'm guessing you're referring to whether the "Augments Dual Wield" is additive to Double Attack, or if it is a separate term. That is, whether 10% Double Attack and 10% Set Bonus gives you offhand 20% DA or 19%?

If that's what you were asking, there isn't any testing I've seen on it either. The only way I can think of to even test it would be for some sucker to sit in front of the screen for hours watching the offhand extra swing for tens of thousands of samples. Because I'm not aware of any parser that can accurately tell your offhand DA only. And... that's not likely to ever happen. I don't think anyone would ever do that testing to the degree you'd get a confident answer. (If you've a better idea on how to test it, I'm all ears.)

[dasva]

You wouldn't really have to watch offhand only. I mean if you know your DA rate and can parse total number attacks per round you can easily factor out the extras from mainhand regular double attack given enough data. Best done with a much higher DA rate to make the difference a bit bigger. Not to mention would require a much smaller sample size

It's shame it doesn't work like jailors though lol.

[Pandorablue]

Supposing that, on WHM, my Idle set looks like this:

Owleyes/Genbu/???/???
Hairpin/???/Moonshade/???
AF3+2/Serp/???/???
???/???/Stearc/Serp

Would it be more prudent to fill the ???s with MP+ gear or (P)DT- gear?

[Neisan]

Start in MP+ then swap it out as the mp is used, but as this is too troublesome/inv constraining for me at times I simply fulltime w/e DT gear I have.

[cdgreg]

Supposing that, on WHM, my Idle set looks like this:

Owleyes/Genbu/???/???
Hairpin/???/Moonshade/???
AF3+2/Serp/???/???
???/???/Stearc/Serp

Would it be more prudent to fill the ???s with MP+ gear or (P)DT- gear?

I pretty much go refresh gear>-dt>mp. Then of course have an additional macro for full on -pdt. I don't even have owl macrod in for WHM in idle set because I'm so often dual box procing red!! whm + nin using staff =\.

edit: and gaiters on feet, way too damn lazy not to always have gaiters kick in aftercast...

[Nightfyre]

I'm guessing you're referring to whether the "Augments Dual Wield" is additive to Double Attack, or if it is a separate term. That is, whether 10% Double Attack and 10% Set Bonus gives you offhand 20% DA or 19%?

Correct.

If that's what you were asking, there isn't any testing I've seen on it either. The only way I can think of to even test it would be for some sucker to sit in front of the screen for hours watching the offhand extra swing for tens of thousands of samples. Because I'm not aware of any parser that can accurately tell your offhand DA only. And... that's not likely to ever happen. I don't think anyone would ever do that testing to the degree you'd get a confident answer. (If you've a better idea on how to test it, I'm all ears.)

Use two weapons with drastically different base damage values, parse, separate results based on damage dealt. Not something you can do afk in Sea, but you can at least use it on fortifications or walls. Delay doesn't really matter either since you just need to count number of attacks with this method, can go with full buffs.

[Deadgye]

That still wouldn't separate between a DA and a set proc on the offhand though, would it? (Or does the set proc do increased damage or use the main hand of the extra offhand swing?) If not you pretty much have to afk attack in sea or a fortification until you get a sample size that can differentiate between the minute difference.

[jimbobsonofgod]

Supposing that, on WHM, my Idle set looks like this:

Owleyes/Genbu/???/???
Hairpin/???/Moonshade/???
AF3+2/Serp/???/???
???/???/Stearc/Serp

Would it be more prudent to fill the ???s with MP+ gear or (P)DT- gear?

Mine is
Owleyes/Genbu/-/Shadow sachet
Hairpin/Orochi Nodowa/Moonshade/Colossus's Earring
AF3+2/Serp/Augmented Dark Ring/Augmented Dark Ring
Chev Cape/Cleric's Belt/Stearc/Serp
If I know I'm going to be taking damage through out a fight I'll swap to
Movement/-pdt pants Twilight torque and terra's staff

[dasva]

That still wouldn't separate between a DA and a set proc on the offhand though, would it? (Or does the set proc do increased damage or use the main hand of the extra offhand swing?) If not you pretty much have to afk attack in sea or a fortification until you get a sample size that can differentiate between the minute difference.

I think he means manual sifting thru the parsed data. And no it doesn't increase the dmg the using different dmg weapons does. To make it real obvious you can mainhand a 1 dmg weapon with -fstr and something just a tad higher and that way you know all 0s are mainhand and all non 0s are offhand.

Of course you are going to end up killing your whatever still. So personally I'd just afk longer and stick with 0 dmg for both and use a big enough sample to get your confidence interval smaller than the difference between true DA and OAT. Gearing as much as you can for DA will help make that difference larger. Granted even with full DA gearing it would take a few thousand attack rounds but that's what afking is for and sorted thru the data sounds icky... then again Kparser can display distribution of dmgs too I think so maybe wouldn't be that bad

[Marokko]

Almace vs. Excal

[Cursed]

Almace vs. Excal

Excal

[Greatguardian]

For overall QD damage and not just Epeen shots, full AF3+2 or mix/match? Does it make a difference if I have an MAB/QD- Mirke yet? Plan to replace my ancient Pld Nuevo with it whenever I get around to redo'ing the fight. Also don't currently have a QD- Whead.

[Deader2818]

QD body should be a staple. Not sure on legs, head and hands though for af3+2,

[Atoreis]

Excal

Nope sir.

Currently Almace destroys Excal on almost everything.

Excal is only better if you for some reason can't make CDC but in 90% of those situation you also don't want to kill mob fast (VW, dynamis while trying to stagger). The other 10% is /dnc spamming waltzes.

[dasva]

Wyrmal head can get -QD recast too...

[Akkarin]

Ganesha's Mala vs. Ele-Gorget for single hits.

Higher fTP WSs would benefit more on Mods/Mala but lower fTP will likely benefit more from Gorget. That's my thoughts.

2% is low though...

[dasva]

The quad attack portion of mala benefits more from lower ftp as well... plus some single hits have high ftps lol. Like most the ones actually worth using

[Greatguardian]

QD body should be a staple. Not sure on legs, head and hands though for af3+2,

Yeah, I'll be working on that soon. It's more a matter of playtime at the moment than anything else. In the meantime, what do you think about 5/5 AF3+2 (set bonus, etc) vs AF3+2 head (or AF1+1 head), Loki's Kaftan, Schutzen Mittens, Denali Kecks, and AF3+2 Feet?

Wyrmal head can get -QD recast too...

Also don't currently have a QD- Whead.

[Akkarin]

The quad attack portion of mala benefits more from lower ftp as well... plus some single hits have high ftps lol. Like most the ones actually worth using

Yeah, I appreciate both low and high fTP WSs would benefit. 2% just seems a bit low to drop Mods/Gorget in place of Mala. Looking for opinions on whether, generally speaking, Mala>Gorget/Mods.