What's Better?

[pancakesandsex]

I swapped in the thief's knife for an offhand for the above and below results to get some "worst case" scenario numbers. I figure anything else I put in the offhand is going to make things higher across the board so I might as well lowball it. Please correct me if that's making things inaccurate.

Setup stats:
99 elvaaan Thf/Nin
12 DEX merits
5% Crit merits
16 dagger skill

No food
Debuffs off
Buffs All off


Twashtar/Thief's Knife/Raider's boomerang
Raider's +2/Agasaya/Brutal/Supa
Raider's +2/Raiders +2/Demonry/Eponas
Atheling/Twilight/Raiders +2/Assassin's +2

42.096 dps on bukhus
63.269 dps on fodder

Twashtar/Thief's Knife/Raider's boomerang
Raider's +2/Agasaya/Brutal/Supa
Raider's +2/alucinor/demonry/Eponas
Atheling/Twilight/Raiders +2/Assassin's +2

41.944 dps on bukhis
59.996 dps on fodder

[Motenten]

Regarding the thf/triple attack/etc discussion:

Set bonus and triple damage bonus on thf have always been complicated to calculate. While rewriting to hopefully make it more workable (it's actually been in the works for a while), I found an error that severely undervalued their effects (was basically multiplying the Triple Attack rate twice). So that's been fixed, and should hopefully be a better overall representation.

As for the actual bonus values themselves (for +triple attack damage), I know at least one of them was tested (though don't remember which one offhand), but the rest are just guesses. Let me know if you find any better info.

[Flight_93]

Any definitive testing on Athos' set bonus tiers?

[pancakesandsex]

New numbers with the new spreadsheet:

Twashtar/Thief's Knife/Raider's boomerang
Raider's +2/Agasaya/Brutal/Supa
Raider's +2/Raiders +2/Demonry/Eponas
Atheling/Twilight/Raiders +2/Assassin's +2

50.405 dps on bukhus
73.459 dps on fodder

Twashtar/Thief's Knife/Raider's boomerang
Raider's +2/Agasaya/Brutal/Supa
Raider's +2/alucinor/demonry/Eponas
Atheling/Twilight/Raiders +2/Assassin's +2

49.573 dps on bukhis
69.375 dps on fodder

Twashtar/Thief's Knife/Raider's boomerang
Raider's +2/Agasaya/Brutal/Supa
Raider's +2/Raiders +2/Demonry/Eponas
Atheling/Twilight/Raiders +2/Euru's Ledelsens

46.977 on bukhis
71.867 on fodder

[NynJa]

Scout's Bracers +2 worth upgrading (STR+7 AGI+7 Ranged attack+11 Evasion+11 Enmity-3 aug: Adds "Enhances 'Flashy Shot' effect" )

or just roll with Seiryu's Kote?

[shen]

.. 85 for fodder?

I don't know how you're getting that low. With every buff/debuff turned off, and no food, outside abyssea, and twash/triplus, I get 89.9 for the +2 hands, and 86.5 for Brego.

Hmm... mighta been the merits, forget what I had them set as. Still my results followed similarly to yours.

New numbers with the new spreadsheet:

Twashtar/Thief's Knife/Raider's boomerang
Raider's +2/Agasaya/Brutal/Supa
Raider's +2/Raiders +2/Demonry/Eponas
Atheling/Twilight/Raiders +2/Assassin's +2

50.405 dps on bukhus
73.459 dps on fodder

Twashtar/Thief's Knife/Raider's boomerang
Raider's +2/Agasaya/Brutal/Supa
Raider's +2/alucinor/demonry/Eponas
Atheling/Twilight/Raiders +2/Assassin's +2

49.573 dps on bukhis
69.375 dps on fodder

Twashtar/Thief's Knife/Raider's boomerang
Raider's +2/Agasaya/Brutal/Supa
Raider's +2/Raiders +2/Demonry/Eponas
Atheling/Twilight/Raiders +2/Euru's Ledelsens

46.977 on bukhis
71.867 on fodder

I got the new spreadsheet and came up with the same results. Can't make Raider's Armlets/Assassin's Poulaines lose to anything except Raider's Armlets/Dusk Ledelsens +1 with Haste/2x Marches OR when delay reduction is capped. So are Armlets/Poulaines truly the best combo for low buff situations??

Scout's Bracers +2 worth upgrading (STR+7 AGI+7 Ranged attack+11 Evasion+11 Enmity-3 aug: Adds "Enhances 'Flashy Shot' effect" )

or just roll with Seiryu's Kote?

Assuming you're asking for Apex Arrow, bracers win. I believe they lose to Seiryu's as you cap fSTR2. Even if they don't, they'll definitely lose if you're capping pDIF too. Either way that shouldn't matter often as that'd be difficult to cap.

Can't seem to come up with any info on how it enhances Flashy Shot, but that could increase their value as well. Also best evasion hands for RNG!! lol

[noodles355]

I'm really surprised how the AF3+2 hands are beating a haste option. If Acc is capped, 3Str and 18Attack is better than going from 23 to true 25% haste? That seems unbelievable. Unless you need the 11Acc that +2 have over Brego. What food are you using? Pizza+1 or RCB?

[noodles355]

Assuming you're asking for Apex Arrow, bracers win.

Will that be true for Last Stand too?

[pancakesandsex]

I'm really surprised how the AF3+2 hands are beating a haste option. If Acc is capped, 3Str and 18Attack is better than going from 23 to true 25% haste? That seems unbelievable. Unless you need the 11Acc that +2 have over Brego. What food are you using? Pizza+1 or RCB?

Numbers were ran without any food or buffs.
I selected pizza +1 and RCB +1 and the difference stayed within 2 dps of the unbuffed numbers with the 23% haste option on top.

[NynJa]

Assuming you're asking for Apex Arrow, bracers win. I believe they lose to Seiryu's as you cap fSTR2. Even if they don't, they'll definitely lose if you're capping pDIF too. Either way that shouldn't matter often as that'd be difficult to cap.

Can't seem to come up with any info on how it enhances Flashy Shot, but that could increase their value as well. Also best evasion hands for RNG!! lol

Coulda swore I posted "yoich rng"...but yeah, Namas will come into play.

[VZX01]

Will that be true for Last Stand too?

Yes, if the ratk+11 doesn't exist, Seiryu's Kote will win.

[Reg]

For Mercy Stroke:
Augmented Heca Cap +1 with:

random crap attack+10
double atk +2

vs

random crap
double atk +4?

[Motenten]

I got the new spreadsheet and came up with the same results. Can't make Raider's Armlets/Assassin's Poulaines lose to anything except Raider's Armlets/Dusk Ledelsens +1 with Haste/2x Marches OR when delay reduction is capped. So are Armlets/Poulaines truly the best combo for low buff situations??

Yes, it looks like Relic+2 beats any haste feet unless you're getting Marches.

Raider+2 hands vs Brego when below haste cap (23% assuming the use of Relic+2 feet) can vary with the difference of 1 point of str, either being tied, or Raider+2 being a little bit ahead.

Differences include: 16 att, 3 str (possible 1 fStr), 8 dex for probably at least 1% crit rate (my config put dDex at exactly 40, so gained 1%, but not any of the rapid increase above that), and 3% set bonus (assuming 3 other peices of AF3+2) vs 2% haste.

So no, it's not all that surprising that AF3+2 hands win, there.

[pancakesandsex]

Yes, it looks like Relic+2 beats any haste feet unless you're getting Marches.

Raider+2 hands vs Brego when below haste cap (23% assuming the use of Relic+2 feet) can vary with the difference of 1 point of str, either being tied, or Raider+2 being a little bit ahead.

Differences include: 16 att, 3 str (possible 1 fStr), 8 dex for probably at least 1% crit rate (my config put dDex at exactly 40, so gained 1%, but not any of the rapid increase above that), and 3% set bonus (assuming 3 other peices of AF3+2) vs 2% haste.

So no, it's not all that surprising that AF3+2 hands win, there.

I'm using a 12 dex merit setup, are you going 12 str? I couldn't get it to cross the streams no matter how much magic haste I threw on there, 23% with raider's/assassin's would always win.

[Motenten]

Ah, yes, I had 12 str on it. With 12 dex, the dex on the Raider's hands pushes you through a large chunk of the final dDex range, giving you quite a crit rate boost. In that case, with Marches Brego ties with Raider +2, though if I remove food Raider +2 pulls ahead again.

[Foldypaws]

What would be a decent Wildfire-on-the-cheap setup? (Wouldn't want to pay more than 500k per slot unless it was a *huge* upgrade over the next best thing?)

Edit: for COR.

[noodles355]

Pandinus is a pretty huge upgrade, but assuming you're talking about COR, AF3+2 hat isn't terrible. Similar neck slot, Stoicheon rapes, but failing that you could use AF3 neck. Hectate/Moldy are free if dont want to buy Novio. Best body slots are all free: Athos/Loki/Mab Mirke. Alrunas for hands, but they can be hard to find, otherwise Ra/Ex AGI options like Ocelot or Schultzen. Athos best on Dark/Earth/Fire days. AGI rings, +6 or +7 depending on how cheap you're going. Forban is best for back slot, failing that I really dont know what to suggest, there isn't much else awesome in that slot. I guess an Aisance Mantle +1 for the 5AGI would be ok. Sveltesse for waist. Ambushers are free, failing that, denali are too. AF3+2 for feet.

[Foldypaws]

Thanks. Looks like I could actually put together a decent set sans back using just the THF/DNC/RDM gear I already have. (Well, + COR Emp)

[fantasticdan]

af3+2 feet vs athos's boots with partial set bonus for stringing pummel?

Basically 8 str vs 2% crit rate on a 32% str mod ws.

[noodles355]

Never got an answer for these so reposting:
Evisceration (Stacked and unstacked): Athos's Tights or Raider's +2? Fairly certain AF3+2 win, but double checking.

And then for all of these, which is best between Ambusher's Hose and Athos's Tights:
Solo Trick Attack
SA Exenterator
TA Exenterator