What makes a monster "Resistant?"

[Byrthnoth]

We're preparing to add a lot of monsters to BGwiki. In the process of doing this, Septimus was kind enough to start us off with this list.

Enough with the intro, onto the main point!
1) Our knowledge of magic accuracy, magic damage, and so on has dramatically increased since the days of everything level 51+ being "weak to ice bcuz Distortion -> Freeze totally ownz it."
- How do we want to re-define this "weakness" term?
- Are some monsters "strong" or "weak" without taking reduced damage from that element? (You can ES nuke it for full damage.)
- Do we just stick with the old "weakness" terms because we all know and love them and they're part of the lore, even though we should suspect on some level that crabs aren't actually weak to ice? It's not going to be reasonable to sit there and cast 100 level 1 spells from each element on a monster of each family.

2) What should be changed (added, eliminated, etc.) on the list?

[Yugl]

As far as I know, there are two types of "resistances." The first appears to be similar to be similar to elemental resistance on gear (Think fire builds). You typically sniff these our via skillchain/obi combos. The other type is SDT (Species damage taken). This might simply be enhanced resistance, but the important part is that you find out these via nukes. For example, a BLU using drain (Constant damage since it's purely skill based) will witness half resists against bats at Ronfaure even at level 90.

In my opinion, it might be helpful to build the mob page similar to the equipment menu, but replace the boxes with a picture and ATT/DEF with PDT/SDT/MDT values.

[dasva]

Sometimes it isn't just an element but a particular spell(s), ws(s) etc or specific type of effect regardless of element. Not sure about the drain example there but ws that drain will still do full dmg on bats though it is more prone to resist. Same with say sleep duration. But try and poison a leech even with elemental seal and you'll half duration (or lower) everytime (as well as half water dmg to it).


So yeah I agree with some kind of distinction between just enhanced resistance and flat out reduction.

On that note should at least note leeches are strong to water

[Ophannus]

Another factor is that a single status ailment isn't always aligned to the same element. BLM Sleepga is Dark based sleep, but Shiva's Sleepga is Ice based and will land easier on dark based mobs than the BLM version. Leviathan's Slowga, in turn, is Water based and will land on Earth resistant mobs. SO it's trickier for status ailments since mobs can resist a debuff via straight up Resist-Ailment or via resisting the element the ailment is based off of. It's difficult to assess how many points of "Resist-ElementX is equivalent to Resist-Ailment aligned to ElementX" e.g If you wanted to resist Disease, how much +Fire Resist gear is equivalent to Resist Disease+10, as in what's the exchange rate. Is +20 fire resistance roughly equal to Resist Plague+10. Naturally it would depend on the monster's innate Enfeebling skill, MND/INT, level and any family Magic Accuracy bonuses/traits, and the Resist Plague would work for any level regardless of elemental resistance. But also are Resist traits equal to +10% evasion towards the spell, +10 evasion towards the spell, -10% duration, both?

[TheDirtyHobo]

1. I would make a distinct difference between "strong to but can be overcome with lots of m.acc" strength to and "immune to" strength. i.e. Bombs are 50% immune to all non-fire elements, but you'll generally land it at full possible damage, so they aren't particularly "resistant" against it.
2. I would add a physical damage weakness/immunity section. I would also remove the immunity column and just put it in special (and along those lines, Puks absorb wind, don't they? It's not listed), having a column only for 2 mob types doesn't seem worthwhile.

[Ocara]

There was an old Jp chart that used to list specific physical/elemental SDT values for various old mob types using piercing/blunt/slashing/h2h values and elemental rows. Should have the physical resistances split into at least three columns. Instead of having a column for resistances and one for SDT, could have one row for each element and use the background color of a specific elemental row to indicate resistance high/neutral/low and then use the actual space to indicate the SDT value for that element. Right now it's kind of cluttered and unformatted with all the possible elements crammed into one cell.

[Byrthnoth]

To clarify something, that table is the information that will be used to make pages. It isn't the finished product. So the formatting of the table is less important than what will go into it.

Do you know where this JP Chart is, Ocara? I agree with pretty much everything that has been said, but I don't want to go around casting a spell of each element on every monster type in the game (the list is long). If people are willing to help, we can probably knock it out pretty quickly, but solo it would take me ages.

Completing that chart to our satisfaction is what stands between bgwiki and a complete FFXI bestiary.

[Ocara]

I can look when I get home but I don't know if I have it bookmarked still. I'll post it here if I can find it again. Last time I saw it was pre-wiki so no idea if it even is up somewhere.

Edit: Seems the original page I was thinking of is probably down now (damn people hosting things on free site domains) but all of the relevant information and then some was apparently compiled into a post here: http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/par...al-weapon.html

Not sure there's any specifically useful info there that isn't already on wiki, but maybe. It's a post from 2006 so take it as you will.

[Xanthe]

Don't forget to take flying enemies into account that are either immune (100% evasion) to melee damage or those that have phases where they are immune.

[banggugyangu]

If I understand the question properly, I personally believe there should definitely be a distinction between a monster's Magical Evasion and Magical Damage taken. I think keeping the term "Resistance" to continue meaning "Magical Evasion" as it has been for 9 years would help to reduce confusion on the older player base. On the other hand, as long as whatever term is used is logical, anyone should be able to understand it easily.

[Slycer]

1) Our knowledge of magic accuracy, magic damage, and so on has dramatically increased since the days of everything level 51+ being "weak to ice bcuz Distortion -> Freeze totally ownz it."

I'm thinking this myth about everything in the game being weak to ice wasn't totally baseless - Ice/Aquilo's Staff has the +10 ele skill and +4/5 INT on it, which, around level 51, is quite a big difference in terms of what its effect on resist rate would be (at least 2 levels worth of skill). Why would crabs be weak to ice anyway? I never understood that and I never bought that from the first time I heard it. Thunder would make more sense intuitively since they are clearly water-based, drop water crystals, and use water-based abilities.

[Foldypaws]

I'm thinking this myth about everything in the game being weak to ice wasn't totally baseless - Ice/Aquilo's Staff has the +10 ele skill and +4/5 INT on it, which, around level 51, is quite a big difference in terms of what its effect on resist rate would be (at least 2 levels worth of skill). Why would crabs be weak to ice anyway? I never understood that and I never bought that from the first time I heard it. Thunder would make more sense intuitively since they are clearly water-based, drop water crystals, and use water-based abilities.

Wyvern breaths are a pretty good way to test a mobs lowest resistance, at least among the 6 wheel elements. I'll go out and have delphyne breath on a few crabs tonight to test what it is.

[Cymmina]

Omega takes reduced damage from dark (makes sense given the persistent weather) and Absorb-TP has reduced effectiveness. From June 28, 2010 parse, should still be Lv75:

    Cryohelix
       70:    1
       74:    1
      118:    1
 ^    124:    1
      142:    1
+     148:    2
    Noctohelix
+^      3:    1

Ultima doesn't seem to take reduced damage from light, though. This is from a level 80 parse, I'm not sure if I have an Indra's or not at this point, but I definitely have all HQ staves:

    Ionohelix
       38:    1
+      79:    3
 ^     80:    1
+      85:    3
    Luminohelix
+      80:    1
+^     90:    1

Qutrubs are immune to all sleeps, I think. Lullaby and Repose don't work on them. Haven't tested with BLU sleeps or Shiva.

[Yugl]

Qutrub at Tahrongi resisted both Dream flower (BLU's best dark sleep) and Yawn (BLU's best light sleep). They also resist Sheep Song (Light based sleep).

[Sute]

As far as i remember qutrub just resist all forms of any sleep, hated them for zeni pics back in the day.