FINAL FANTASY XI Job Adjustmentｓ Manifesto

[arus2001]

From what I recall, the 0 TP thing was a result of the French translation, but I don't think any of the others said that. So, I'm just kinda finding it funny people are honing in on that and assuming it so instead of the possibility it's a mistake. As is, even with it being a conceptual idea, and thus us knowing fuck all more about it, I was inclined to believe it was more of a negative Store TP to the point it might add a needed hit to whatever build you're using in exchange for maybe doing that lost STP's amount of added percentage damage. Would it justify less frequent WS? I dunno. Though, I would figure there's some merit in the closer you are to 80%, which DRK can do easily, WSing too often could actually hurt you.

[Jem]

You guys take it so seriously, I was just talking hypotheticals. I know it is extremely unlikely that SE would ever make the ability work that way.

I'm saying if it was implemented that way (which again I know is unlikely) then would it make DRK more desirable. I'm thinking more about higher tier mobs with dangerous TP moves so a DRK would be able to melee away at it without making it TP anymore than normal. So you'd have the option of either higher damage with TP spam or slightly lower damage output with no TP spam and on mobs where TP spam would actually causes deaths.

I personally did think it would work in a negative STP way too when I first read it for the record.

But to the WS'ing too often hurting your damage, I don't think that happens too often. Like today on Wyrm I was hitting for 300-400 and WS'ing for 2-3.5k. Then on Fafnir/Nidhogg I was hitting for 200-300 and WS'ing for 1.5-2.5k. And there were times where I'd Cata > Quadruple Attack > Cata and I can't imagine that I would have done more damage if I had not Catastrophed and this was at 80% Haste.

[arus2001]

I'll just say I'll think you're bonkers if you think SE would allow a 0 TP melee option. Closest we have now would be avatar BPs or Ceremonial Dagger'd enspells. The latter sucks balls on anything that matters and the former is obviously limited by BP timers.

[Byrthnoth]

... and jumps, and chi blast, and quick draw. It doesn't really fit the job's MO to have a 0-TP stance. That would be more likely to go to Ninja or Monk.

[TacoTaru]

Was there a different translation that explained their idea more clearly? I just assumed it consumed X amount of TP and buffed your next attack based on that.

[Alkar]

I was looking through the magic data last night. There is only one spot slated for summoning magic left, the rest was changed into Enlight, Endark, the Animus spells, and tier II enspells; but I noticed that they did change that spell's data slightly from the older version of the magic data. (Specifically, the changed the icon to a light-based avatar icon from fire-based avatar icon which used to be the default.)

I wonder if they are going to give SMNs Cait Sith as a standard avatar but have Cait Sith summon Atomos for the Astral Flow.

Or Cait Sith is almost ready (considering she has a moveset already) and will be introduced in the next VU while Atomos still requires some work. We honestly have no clue at this point.

[Septimus]

Or Cait Sith is almost ready (considering she has a moveset already) and will be introduced in the next VU while Atomos still requires some work. We honestly have no clue at this point.

When PoLUtils was updated, we saw that many of the spells that are over level 90 were marked out in some way, either changing the elements and magic types or gave them jobs and levels. There are no other free spots for Summoning magic, they can change any spell into any other type of spell, but they did a pretty good job differentiating other spells.

With that said, that spare summoning magic spot could be for something else like Phoenix or Auroral Alicorn, or they may have just decided to change the default image for summing magic from Fire to Light and had/have no plans for new summons anytime in the future and the Cait Sith and Atomos thing was just a suggestion that they aren't taking seriously. I guess the best way to put it is that I would not place a bet on if/when SMN is going to get any avatars, but we have some interesting speculation for what could be done.

[Yugl]

I was thinking of DRK having the WoTG earring effect where they use a buff that converts TP above 100% to raw damage bonus with 300% TP adding 100% DMG to hits (Perhaps WS too?).

[Alkar]

When PoLUtils was updated, we saw that many of the spells that are over level 90 were marked out in some way, either changing the elements and magic types or gave them jobs and levels. There are no other free spots for Summoning magic, they can change any spell into any other type of spell, but they did a pretty good job differentiating other spells.

With that said, that spare summoning magic spot could be for something else like Phoenix or Auroral Alicorn, or they may have just decided to change the default image for summing magic from Fire to Light and had/have no plans for new summons anytime in the future and the Cait Sith and Atomos thing was just a suggestion that they aren't taking seriously. I guess the best way to put it is that I would not place a bet on if/when SMN is going to get any avatars, but we have some interesting speculation for what could be done.

Dropping names is not a good idea if they're only suggestions not being taken seriously. They could've used the generic term "avatars" but instead they went a step further and even mentioned which ones.
The recent update had a lot of spells/JAs added and most of them are probably mentioned in the Manifesto (BLU spells for sure). This change of element for a summoning magic spell doesn't seem to be that random at all (Cait Sith's special attack is light based after all).
This is like Meteor for BLMs. You can't say "BLMs get Meteor" and then not implement it.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, can't the spell list be edited/changed?
They've also been teasing Summoners with Atomos ever since the very first trailer of WotG. I doubt these ideas are only being mentioned now.

[Kaisha]

Is there a set limit to the amount of spells that FFXI has available to it? I've not mucked with the tools before, so I'm unaware exactly how much unused data is sitting around that could be possibly repurposed, or stricken by programming limitations for the PS2.

[Jeryhn]

This is like Meteor for BLMs. You can't say "BLMs get Meteor" and then not implement it.

The RNG enmity updates would like to have a word with you.

[Celebrindor]

Forgive me if I've missed it being mentioned, but I'm hoping that SE implements a partial resist of gravity that still implements the lowered evasion without the lowered movement speed. If SE doesn't want to make mobs kite-able I get it. But at least let the enfeeble do half of its job on HNMs and the like.

As for making RDMs actually functional at events....man, I don't know what they can do any more. Skillchain bonus damage trait? Can't tell you the last time I did a skillchain outside of Wyrm and the like, and even then bring a COR makes more sense than a RDM. Healing? Please. Melee? I just don't see how its gonna work. Unless we're talking seriously high HP mobs and seriously debilitating enfeebles that justify having a RDM there, I'll still be coming to events on another job, no matter how much I still love my first. Its just not worth the dead weight.

[Septimus]

Dropping names is not a good idea if they're only suggestions not being taken seriously. They could've used the generic term "avatars" but instead they went a step further and even mentioned which ones.
The recent update had a lot of spells/JAs added and most of them are probably mentioned in the Manifesto (BLU spells for sure). This change of element for a summoning magic spell doesn't seem to be that random at all (Cait Sith's special attack is light based after all).
This is like Meteor for BLMs. You can't say "BLMs get Meteor" and then not implement it.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, can't the spell list be edited/changed?
They've also been teasing Summoners with Atomos ever since the very first trailer of WotG. I doubt these ideas are only being mentioned now.

On the top of the Job manifesto they had a disclaimer in red letters:

*Multiple example adjustments follow each job vision. These are provided merely to illustrate the general direction we intend to take each job—actual adjustments implemented may differ from what is written.

This is why I said that I would not place a bet on anything that they are planning on doing. I think that if they decided to give SMN more avatars back when they started the level cap raising process, they probably decided on just one. That doesn't mean that they can't change their minds and add in more when they feel like it, bringing us to point 2.

Is there a set limit to the amount of spells that FFXI has available to it? I've not mucked with the tools before, so I'm unaware exactly how much unused data is sitting around that could be possibly repurposed, or stricken by programming limitations for the PS2.

Currently there are 768 entries in the magic table, if we exclude spells that don't have a name (or a name that we can guess easily like Boost-STR) there are 587 spells listed, there are about 522 spells that players can cast. I wouldn't call this PS2 Limitations, this is a data-structure thing. When the game started they allocated a certain amount of space for each type of spell (White Magic, Black Magic, Bard Songs) and left some space for potential new spells. The problem is that they ran out of space so they had to start moving spells to new parts of the data list that were allocated for other spells, this is why RDMs noticed that tier II en-spells were below Black Magic in their spell list, because en-spell IIs were placed in some free spots after summoning magic.

I would imagine that if there is a PS2 limitation on the number of spells, it would be fairly large. There are 6143 entries in the armor table, and there is a lot more bits of data packed in each armor entry than in each line of magic. If they run out of spells, I am sure that they would be able to append more to the end after the Blue Magic spells without any problem.

Forgive me if I've missed it being mentioned, but I'm hoping that SE implements a partial resist of gravity that still implements the lowered evasion without the lowered movement speed. If SE doesn't want to make mobs kite-able I get it. But at least let the enfeeble do half of its job on HNMs and the like.

As for making RDMs actually functional at events....man, I don't know what they can do any more. Skillchain bonus damage trait? Can't tell you the last time I did a skillchain outside of Wyrm and the like, and even then bring a COR makes more sense than a RDM. Healing? Please. Melee? I just don't see how its gonna work. Unless we're talking seriously high HP mobs and seriously debilitating enfeebles that justify having a RDM there, I'll still be coming to events on another job, no matter how much I still love my first. Its just not worth the dead weight.

If they made our current enfeebles actually land on things that matter, it would go a long way to making RDM functional. Paralyze II and Slow II are amazing if you can get them to actually land with a nice MND build. It would also be great if they improved Addle to make its effect actually noticeable, half of the time that I cast it is because it lands and it is something to cast on a mob.

The main problem is that any adjustment that is made to RDM will cause screaming from the community that RDM is too powerful already all because some guy with a bladder of steel was able to bio down a turtle over the course of like 10 hours a long time ago. So anything given to RDMs has to be laughable (looking right at you tier II en-spells) or completely useless for the job (Magic Burst Bonus and Shield Mastery) unless it is new and other jobs get it as well. (Then it is only border-line useless like Addle and Break.)

Personally, I would like to see some new RDM-only enfeebles that take a but-load of skill to land, but when they land they actually do something. But I am not going to hold my breath.

[Damane]

Forgive me if I've missed it being mentioned, but I'm hoping that SE implements a partial resist of gravity that still implements the lowered evasion without the lowered movement speed. If SE doesn't want to make mobs kite-able I get it. But at least let the enfeeble do half of its job on HNMs and the like.

As for making RDMs actually functional at events....man, I don't know what they can do any more. Skillchain bonus damage trait? Can't tell you the last time I did a skillchain outside of Wyrm and the like, and even then bring a COR makes more sense than a RDM. Healing? Please. Melee? I just don't see how its gonna work. Unless we're talking seriously high HP mobs and seriously debilitating enfeebles that justify having a RDM there, I'll still be coming to events on another job, no matter how much I still love my first. Its just not worth the dead weight.

I dont know about you but RDM is quiet usefull outside of Abyssea, considering Voidwatch, which is gonna be the endgame we are faceing the next 2 updates. Enfeebs actually matter there and you can actually land them to some degree. Not to mention cure IV is not borderline useless there and can keep Tanks alive actually. Correct me if I'm wrong but a RDM can reach a pritty high cure potency lvl, with all the gear avialable and some introduced augments (zenith feet for example). Of course a whm can still heal better, but RDM has the bonus of Refresh II, because you know MP is not unlimited outside of Abyssea, even with a 7MP/tic idle Refresh set on WHM. I dont know why all people are crying over useless jobs in Abyssea. Abyssea is only temporary and will die off after the next big update or after that. Depending on what gear is introduced in Voidwatch and what progress Empy weapons take with Voidwatch. It will kind of revert to a Dynamis state where you only enter to complete some missing Empy Armor or start a new Empy weapon.

[Kaisha]

With the way Voidwatch is looking in terms of accessibility/drop-rate&quality, I highly doubt Abyssea will ever become second to it. You'd need another proper content expansion (which we'd have to pay for given XI's lack of budget nowadays) that tops Abyssea for people to ignore it. They've been spoiled by it.

Currently there are 768 entries in the magic table, if we exclude spells that don't have a name (or a name that we can guess easily like Boost-STR) there are 587 spells listed, there are about 522 spells that players can cast. I wouldn't call this PS2 Limitations, this is a data-structure thing. When the game started they allocated a certain amount of space for each type of spell (White Magic, Black Magic, Bard Songs) and left some space for potential new spells. The problem is that they ran out of space so they had to start moving spells to new parts of the data list that were allocated for other spells, this is why RDMs noticed that tier II en-spells were below Black Magic in their spell list, because en-spell IIs were placed in some free spots after summoning magic.

I would imagine that if there is a PS2 limitation on the number of spells, it would be fairly large. There are 6143 entries in the armor table, and there is a lot more bits of data packed in each armor entry than in each line of magic. If they run out of spells, I am sure that they would be able to append more to the end after the Blue Magic spells without any problem.

Thanks for the info. Would explain why ToA-era started seeing some spells getting out of order with the common stuff. I don't blame them though that FFXI lasted as long as it had.

[Septimus]

With the way Voidwatch is looking in terms of accessibility/drop-rate&quality, I highly doubt Abyssea will ever become second to it. You'd need another proper content expansion (which we'd have to pay for given XI's lack of budget nowadays) that tops Abyssea for people to ignore it. They've been spoiled by it.

Thanks for the info. Would explain why ToA-era started seeing some spells getting out of order with the common stuff. I don't blame them though that FFXI lasted as long as it had.

I don't think that we would need a content expansion to beat Abyssea, Voidwatch could potentially do it if the gear wasn't crap and the drop rate wasn't fucking shit-diculous. If it continues as-is, we will be forced to do it to do Empyrean weapons until everyone quits because this is a huge step backwards in terms of content enjoyability.

It's not a matter of lasting as long as it has, the spells were originally slated up to level 150. (For example, BLMs got Thundaga V at level 150 originally.) It was that things took a different direction that they intended from the start. I think that it didn't help that they put Summoning Magic and Ninjutsu between Black Magic and Songs as opposed to appending them to the end, but really it doesn't matter except for the sort. It would be nice if they added the ability to sort spells by magic type then the number.

[Casey_]

edit: wrong topic

[Cadsuane]

I don't think that we would need a content expansion to beat Abyssea, Voidwatch could potentially do it if the gear wasn't crap and the drop rate wasn't fucking shit-diculous. If it continues as-is, we will be forced to do it to do Empyrean weapons until everyone quits because this is a huge step backwards in terms of content enjoyability.

It's not a matter of lasting as long as it has, the spells were originally slated up to level 150. (For example, BLMs got Thundaga V at level 150 originally.) It was that things took a different direction that they intended from the start. I think that it didn't help that they put Summoning Magic and Ninjutsu between Black Magic and Songs as opposed to appending them to the end, but really it doesn't matter except for the sort. It would be nice if they added the ability to sort spells by magic type then the number.

If you`re loosely recalling the old shadow dragons database from beta and early release, you should know that I was in that linkshell, and the original members just sort of made it up.

[Lordender]

Forgive me if I've missed it being mentioned, but I'm hoping that SE implements a partial resist of gravity that still implements the lowered evasion without the lowered movement speed. If SE doesn't want to make mobs kite-able I get it. But at least let the enfeeble do half of its job on HNMs and the like.

As for making RDMs actually functional at events....man, I don't know what they can do any more. Skillchain bonus damage trait? Can't tell you the last time I did a skillchain outside of Wyrm and the like, and even then bring a COR makes more sense than a RDM. Healing? Please. Melee? I just don't see how its gonna work. Unless we're talking seriously high HP mobs and seriously debilitating enfeebles that justify having a RDM there, I'll still be coming to events on another job, no matter how much I still love my first. Its just not worth the dead weight.

They're going to have to rework the entire magic system eventually, having a CHANCE to do your job on fights that matter has always been retarded about RDM's. I blame a very whacky, outdated magic system FFXI has.

[Rocl]

If you`re loosely recalling the old shadow dragons database from beta and early release, you should know that I was in that linkshell, and the original members just sort of made it up.

I vaguely recall way back when I first started using POLUtil spell scrolls existed for things like Thundaga V and had ridiculously high levels. I seem to recall Meteor/Comet being Lv 200+, but they could have simply been 100+. These scrolls were modified many years ago however.

i also could have imagined the whole thing, but i am pretty certain of it!