For a GF to make out with another girl...

[archibaldcrane]

Goddamnit, Ksandra, your timing is terrible. There's no way I'm going to get % estimates after a rant like that.

[Milkster]

I'm a man saying that roughly 28 of 30 gay men I've known in my life exhibited mannerisms that read, to me, as "gay" - and then extrapolating that with a large margin of error to the rest of the population.

You can tell me that my personal experiences across 15 years in 4 different cities all over the country are an exceptionally rare data sample if you like, feel free. I'd also field estimates of what percentage of gay men in your estimation exhibit what you consider to be "gay mannerisms" - would be an interesting case. Get at me gays, what % do you think it is?

No Archi, you have such a vast knowledge of this what are all these mannerisms are you've encountered across the entire country that are only limited to gay people. No heterosexuals could also does these things nor closeted men. If you answer this, then I'll answer your % question.

What exactly do they do that is so gay?

[Milkster]

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...Ui3eEShvz266Eg

This was covered earlier in the thread. It was quite hilarious actually the entire time we were in chat, also there were straight guys also making fun of this thread. What are they? I seriously want to know why you keep coming back because you A) don't care and b) no one here respects any argument you ally yourself with. What's the point? I'm curious. I know I said I wasn't going to respond any more... guess that didn't work out too well.

[EternityEnd]

Exactly. You live in California—Hollywood, for fuck's sake—the capital of the vocal minority of which we speak, because the "community" there engenders the idea that gay people should act a certain way (though it is not intrinsic). In the rest of the world, however, things are quite different for the majority. California is an outlier.

You're trying to impose California's communal indoctrination on to your perception of the rest of the world. In essence, comparing the traditional quirks focused in a single region on everyone else. It's ludicrous. I would wager, however, that most gay people there are still "normal," you're just falling prey to the exact same fallacious assumption that I outlined in my first post. You assume all of the normal people you meet are straight—by default—erroneously drawing the conclusion that, therefore, they are all straight, and that stereotypically gay people are the majority, because they're the most obvious. That's what a vocal minority is.

The truth of what I present is patently obvious if one but bestirs themselves for one moment to look at the entire world and its history. America, and to a lesser prevalence, Canada and the United Kingdom, are the only countries with any sort of notable effeminate behavior. That's because the media in those countries posits the notion that gay people act effeminately, implicating to gay people growing up that they should conform to that idea in order to gain a sense of community—belonging. This is caused by both decades-old prejudice as well as the media's inherent proclivity to simplify things, rather than inform. It's, in my opinion, a tragic loss of individualism. If you deign to look anywhere else, though—particularly the impoverished regions of the world, with a lack of media—you'll see that people share no such mannerisms. At all. People are inclined to adopt whatever artificialities their culture imposes on the group with whom they identify. Basically, traditional behavior is self-perpetuating. That doesn't make it at all intrinsic.

Your "broad spectrum" of experience is deplorably narrow; if you'd care enough to open your eyes, you might realize.

[archibaldcrane]

If you're just writing this off as "California" and it seems you are, I grew up in Wisconsin and spent a hell of a lot more time in Madison, Milwaukee and Miami than I have in my life in California. Again, out of those 30 or so (half of whom weren't in California), maybe 5 I'd consider "flaming" or "queeny" - so if California is a hotbed for flaming queers they generally aren't in my purview.

Milkster, define it as you will, unless you think that there are no common (or even rare) common mannerisms amongst gay men - and then go ahead and say 0% (although that would pretty much obliterate the notion of gaydar).

And EE, no, I'm not trying to take a worldview of the topic - I'm talking about at worst English speakers (I don't speak any other languages) and basically our generation of Americans. I have no experience with how 70 year old Zimbabwean gays act.

What magic land do you all live in anyway where the line between gays and straights is indecipherable (unless you are gay and then gaydar trumps all but is something that no straight guy could ever detect apparently).

[NynJa]

Seems like theres a lot of hurt butt's from one side of the discussion here, I wonder which side that is.

[EternityEnd]

If the only thing you can derive from my post is "California" then I feel vindicated in saying that you're just a troll. You conveniently skirt over anything that disputes your inanely biased personal experience.

It's clear that no one here is interested in intellectual discussion, so I'm done.

P.S. A meager thirty people—extrapolated and exaggerated from memory, I might add—is hardly a sizable enough sample for anything remotely akin to credibility. This is like arguing with a creationist.

[Xno Kappa]

How has this thread lasted so long?

Insecure gays very upset the majority of people find two men making out gross. That's pretty much the whole thread in a nutshell. Oh and they hate feathered gays too.

[archibaldcrane]

If the only thing you can derive from my post is "California" then I feel vindicated in saying that you're just a troll. You conveniently skirt over anything that disputes your inanely biased personal experience.

I'm not trolling, I'm literally shocked that my personal experience is so vastly different from every homosexual that posts here.

Also, do you have a % estimate? Let's say "American gay men between 15-35" to keep it relevant.

[WahiGuard]

Insecure gays very upset the majority of people find two men making out gross. That's pretty much the whole thread in a nutshell. Oh and they hate feathered gays too.

I don`t see it as insecurity. Having feelings and acting upon those feelings is what makes a person gay. So whenever comments such as, 'gays making out is gross'. You are saying gays are gross too. Which is why statements like that are made a gay or bi person would get defensive.

And all this gays hate the effeminate acting males are just projecting their self hate. Because they have that straight acting privilege(lack of better word) where being see with a male with effeminate characteristics would out them. Shit has got to end.

[Snick]

I don`t see it as insecurity. Having feelings and acting upon those feelings is what makes a person gay. So whenever comments such as, 'gays making out is gross'. You are saying gays are gross too. Which is why statements like that are made a gay or bi person would get defensive.

And all this gays hate the effeminate acting males are just projecting their self hate. Because they have that straight acting privilege(lack of better word) where being see with a male with effeminate characteristics would out them. Shit has got to end.

What? lol if someone says its gross for me to make out with my bf I don't think they're saying I'm gross

Self hate? lol sorry, no

[bechyni]

Half of BG:

[Day]

I have to wonder at what point it becomes relevant that I lived with lesbians for 6 years of my life after college, and have met more lesbians, gays and transgenders than probably any other straight man in the backwoods hick town I live in. My experiences are exactly the same as Archi's and we are across the country in two totally different worlds. Are all the gays that have no "tells" of being gay living in the midwest?

[solanis]

I have to wonder at what point it becomes relevant that I lived with lesbians for 6 years of my life after college, and have met more lesbians, gays and transgenders than probably any other straight man in the backwoods hick town I live in. My experiences are exactly the same as Archi's and we are across the country in two totally different worlds. Are all the gays that have no "tells" of being gay living in the midwest?

it never becomes relevant, because living with lesbians does not make you a gay man or give you ~special insight~ into the gay community. you and archi are refusing to understand, and I'm going to lay it out here as clearly as possible: you assume that a person is straight if they don't tell you they're gay, or they don't have a gay lisp or other stereotypical gay traits. this assumtion is part of straight privilege, where you happily can ignore the existance of gay people unless they choose to make their sexual orientation known. you have no idea how many gay people you've met, or straight people, or even transgendered or genderqueer people, because we live in a prejudiced society that still persecutes marginalized groups. this means many people who are not cissexual or cisgendered choose to pass as cis for their own safety. it is frankly hilarious that the two of you come from the backwoods, where homophobia is the most vicious and violent and the most gay people are closeted, and yet you feel you have some sort of genius insight into the qualities of All Gay Men.

as a result, it doesn't fucking matter if you've MET SOOOOO MANY GAY PEOPLE or BUT ALL OF THEM ACTED LIKE THE STEREOTYPICAL GAYS I SEE ON THE STYLE CHANNEL ON THE TELEVISION!!! or I HAVE GAY FRIENDS, THIS GIVES ME INSIGHT or YOU GAY MEN CLEARLY DON'T KNOW AS MUCH ABOUT GAY CULTURE AS I, A STRAIGHT MAN, DO! LET ME EDUCATE YOU ABOUT YOUR OWN CULTURE AND SEXUALITY! shut the fuck up and listen, or get the fuck out. hope this helps!

[Day]

You have pretty much no idea what you are talking about.

[solanis]

I've been proven wrong over and over, I feel sheepish.

it's okay boo, you can't win 'em all

[Day]

What are we trying to win here?

You are asserting most (majority, over 50%) of gay men don't have some sort of "tell" that gives us a pretty good idea that they are gay before we are certain... I think you are wrong. You probably don't even notice it because you are gay.

Why would I want to happily ignore the existence of gay people. Obviously many homosexual people are my friends. You don't make any sense. I know you wish so badly that I was some redneck homophobe, but I'm not sweetheart. Continue to greatly exaggerate what you think I think. I'll be here laughing at you.

[Dimmauk]

Solanis's post reminds me when gays were saying we don't know what straight women like. Cause they have a lot of experience in what straight women like. Also, one gay mannerism is the up and down look when they scan you with gaydar. Straights don't look people up and down looking for items of flare.

[solanis]

What are we trying to win here?

You are asserting most (majority, over 50%) of gay men don't have some sort of "tell" that gives us a pretty good idea that they are gay before we are certain... I think you are wrong. You probably don't even notice it because you are gay.

Why would I want to happily ignore the existence of gay people. Obviously many homosexual people are my friends. You don't make any sense. I know you wish so badly that I was some redneck homophobe, but I'm not sweetheart. Continue to greatly exaggerate what you think I think. I'll be here laughing at you.

you really don't get it, do you? you don't know more about gay culture than gay men. shut the fuck up and stop shouting over them, since nobody values your straight boy opinion about this. I'm gonna assume you're trolling at this point, because only ksandra could be this retarded and not do it on purpose.

Solanis's post reminds me when gays were saying we don't know what straight women like. Cause they have a lot of experience in what straight women like. Also, one gay mannerism is the up and down look when they scan you with gaydar. Straights don't look people up and down looking for items of flare.

well, if you were a straight woman you'd have a point buuuut... you're a straight man right?

[Day]

When did I say I know more about gay culture? I said the majority of gays I have met, talked with, ate dinner with, hung out with all had a tell that let me knew they were gay before they came out and told me. I've met one guy out of all the friends I've had that are gay that didn't seem to have any kind of tell. Calm down sweetheart you're gonna bust a vessel, I'm sure you know more about gay culture.

Like I said, continue to exaggerate what you think I think.