Education in America

[Plow]

I wrote a note the other day for my cousin. She is 12, but could not read what I had written to her. My penmanship is very legible, but the problem was the fact that it was in cursive. When I asked her how could she not know how to read it, she said she didn't remember how to write it either. Apparently they stopped teaching it in her elementary school years ago. I asked my aunt and she said that the teachers were told it was no longer needed. Due to budget cuts the board thought being able to type and use basic block print was now sufficient enough.

And here I thought that Mike Judge's comedy Idiocracy could never come to pass.

Sorry but cursive is fucking retarded and pointless and the only people that need to know how to read it are people studying historical documents directly.

[Anomander]

I should note that I went to high school in Elk Grove, California, which is basically a big suburb of Sacramento. I guess the requirements of schools elsewhere is different. They would definitely kick you out to a continuation school if you got too low a gpa or too many absences. That being said high school was a fucking joke, I got straight A's my senior year and did the vast majority of my homework during classes or lunch prior to the class they were due in.

[miokomioko]

Sorry but cursive is fucking retarded and pointless and the only people that need to know how to read it are people studying historical documents directly.

or work in graphic design, typography, advertising, and any number of other related professions that regularly use it for its aesthetics.

[Kumbai]

I got straight A's throughout high school etc and my handwriting is retarded... mainly because when I started school they made me write with my right hand because they didn't have left hander shiz. You see some ridiculous cursive handwriting though, so it's understandable that not everyone can read it.

[Plow]

or work in graphic design, typography, advertising, and any number of other related professions that regularly use it for its aesthetics.

last I checked you didn't have to be able to read cursive to type into a computer and let it make it into a picture

[miokomioko]

You are so. fucking. stupid. lol......

[Cantih]

Christ you two, quit being ready to throw down at the drop of a hat. You're both right, just split the difference.

Remove cursive from the standard curriculum, make it mandatory in typography, graphic design, and history disciplines. You now have a years worth of a decent chunk of English period time to do more useful shit.
You could even leave in an appendix bit in a home ec. class, just enough so everyone can generate a signature.

You are so. fucking. stupid. lol......

Sec, let me translate.

Plow, using a predefined cursive font is NOT the same as designing a unique one with variations for custom purposes.

[Not Kuno]

So I just watched Waiting for Superman last night which raised a lot of questions about issues with education in the US, and I'd love to get some input from the posters here.

Well this thread is already off to a shitty start.

The problem is, American Federation of Teachers (AFT), the teacher's union which is a huge lobbying organization to the democrat party, has managed to secure huge rights for all teachers across the country.

Hey! Did you know that if you have tenure you can get fired for any reason! And it's perfectly legal? Didn't shave, you can get fired. Don't like your hair color? Whammy, you can get fired. And usually this happens the day before you are eligible for tenure too. Huh, what a strange coincidence.

The first noticeable right is that it is very easy for teachers to get tenure. This means that firing teachers is really really hard.

Hnnnnnng. Why would you want to fire a teacher? What is the reason? As a teacher, it is so goddamn easy to get fired. Even with tenure. Got a DWI? You can get fired. Domestic abuse? You can get fired. Shit you do outside of school will get you fired. Shit you do in school can get you fired. Say something wrong/illegal, then you're obviously fired. Hell even if the students don't like you, they can lie and get you fired. Because hey, why side with the teachers?

The second is the fact that all teachers have to be paid the same. It doesn't matter if you're a good teacher or a shitty teacher, you all get paid the exact same amount.

Define a good teacher and shitty teacher. How do you measure this? Better grades? Improvement? Ok thanks principal I am friends with for giving me honor kids. Fuck you, ESL and Special Ed teachers.

For example, in one district it was offered to the union that teachers should be given a choice of either making double salary with no tenure (making the average teacher salary a whopping $125k per year) or regular pay with tenure. The union found this offer so threatening that they didn't even put it to a vote.

This is a pretty retarded idea. Yeah, let's make the people who can get fired the people that get paid more. Spoiler alert: They'll get fired for someone cheaper.

So what do you guys think? Is teacher's union damaging kids' education and future by putting the rights of teachers ahead of the kids? Is there a completely different reason for the failing education system?

I think waiting for superman is an amazing propaganda film that said nothing in regards to the (few) benefits unions have these days.

TL;DR teacher's union destroying kids' education and future? what do?[/QUOTE]

Take away federal funding, make it 100% state and local ran. Kill the unions, hire local parents.

lol I troll u

There are dozens of reasons why American public education is shit:
- emphasis on memorize-and-forget

Not true.

- no foreign language requirements to graduate

New York State requires 2 years of a foreign language (and to pass a test on it).

- no lessons on logic/critical thinking/recognizing fallacies/basic philosophy (which explains why we have so many religious people)

A good teacher will teach that thing.

- standardized tests set the curriculum

Well this is kind of unavoidable.

- no uniforms in most districts, resulting in low morale

wat? lol

- schools forced to waste funds on tard daycare

This is something I'll agree with you. Fuck Special Ed.

The solution to shitty teachers is making teaching a desirable job. As long as you pay teachers the same as plumbers, 99.99999999% of people that are smart enough to do anything other than teaching are going to do something else.

Ding ding ding. Teachers get paid dick. A hurrr they get 2 months off. Fuck you. Teaching doesn't stop when the bell rings and class ends.

[aduidarnenye]

I think that a big part of America's problem when it comes to education is that it is not cool to be smart anymore. Instead, the stupider you are the more acceptable to society you become. In fact, if you look at American politics it seems that people get angry when someone is 'too smart' for them or the general public.

Also, school lunches are complete shit. Every time I'm in the US all I see are hugely overweight children. Obese, tired children can't learn as well as fit active ones.

Finally, don't blame the teachers who constantly have their programmes cut. It's hard to be a good teacher when you have no resources.

Oh and yeah, most of my American in-laws have absolutely no fucking clue when it comes to foreign countries, not even Canada, which is basically America's hat. My brother-in-law was scoffing at Canada because he believed Canada had never fought in a war, meanwhile there are Canadian troops in Afghanistan and Libya and Canada was in both world wars longer than America. These are university educated people but they have abysmal knowledge when it comes to other countries. Really have to stop the navel-gazing down there.

[Mrbeansman]

Oh and yeah, most of my American in-laws have absolutely no fucking clue when it comes to foreign countries, not even Canada, which is basically America's hat. My brother-in-law was scoffing at Canada because he believed Canada had never fought in a war, meanwhile there are Canadian troops in Afghanistan and Libya and Canada was in both world wars longer than America. These are university educated people but they have abysmal knowledge when it comes to other countries. Really have to stop the navel-gazing down there.

Why should we care about other countries there all inferior to us Americas great hurr durr.

[Darus Grey]

Society is making it even acceptable for this type of thing to spread. Texting, Facebook, and Twitter all make it the norm to abbreviate your words & sentence structure. Most children today never practice proper spelling or grammar. Outside of a classroom, the world around them does't make them. Things that used to be a cornerstone of a proper education are thrown to the wayside.

Just sayin'

[Julian]

I do not understand how someone could not be able to read cursive. Are you people serious?

OMG THE LETTERS LOOK SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT... SUDDENLY I CAN NO LONGER READ

[solanis]

You are so. fucking. stupid. lol......

are you replying to plow? he's arguing for a truage public education that best trains people for what they'll actually do in the future.

I do a lot of volunteering in the shitty schools near where I live, and it's really frightening to see kids about to go into middle school who are functionally illiterate. if this is an issue close to your heart, the best thing you can be doing is helping teach after-school writing classes or doing other outreach programs, even giving a tiny bit of money helps. politicians are fucking useless, can't depend on political action to fix this. these kids are fucked otherwise and feed directly the poverty situations being debated in the other threads. prevention = reading

[shaddix]

Apparently they stopped teaching it in her elementary school years ago. I asked my aunt and she said that the teachers were told it was no longer needed. Due to budget cuts the board thought being able to type and use basic block print was now sufficient enough.

This is just disgusting.

[Overburn]

It's not always "slightly different" though.

I've seen (mostly girls) that go out of their ways to make their cursive as complicated as fuck just because it's suppose to look prettier with long loops. I'd much rather have kids take typing classes to be able to use a skill that should still be useful in the next few years.

[solanis]

This is just disgusting.

why? the kids are barely getting what could be called an education, if sacrificing cursive means they learn how to read and write, I don't care in the slightest. throw cursive out the fucking window.

[Not Kuno]

They didn't complete eliminate cursive. It still gets taught, just not to the extent it did years ago. My cursive is ugly as sin anyway so that's something I never cared for.

[Mrbeansman]

I remember being in 5th grade and my teacher not accepting any written work that wasn't written in cursive.

[Apelila]

On the cursive rant:

Writing (with a pen) sucks for some people. I love the practice, hate the act of. Why? My hand cramps after holding a pen for longer than 10 minutes, and stays in 'insane pain mode' for 30 minutes after. School SUCKED when teachers would demand written essay's instead of letting me type. Almost universally once I got my first computer I would type the thing out, then print it, then copy it to save myself the pain in the ass. My freshman and sophomore teacher's refused to accept these because 'spell check is cheating'. When I asked them what the difference between spell check and a dictionary was, since either way I wouldn't know how to spell it beforehand, 'the dictionary requires more work, so you learn better'.

[Kaslo]

The only thing cursive is useful for is creating your own signature, and that's kind of been thrown out the window. We don't need that shit.

On another note, I don't think the problem is shitty teachers or even standardized tests. I think we have a lot of great teachers out there that get discredited for the one or two REALLY shitty ones that show up on occasion. The problem is that kids don't want to learn, and I think this is because we don't focus on finding ways to inspire kids to learn. I, and other friends of mine, excelled because we wanted to learn, and we saw plenty of others fail because they simply didn't want to learn. And there seems to be a growing segment of kids that don't want to learn. We need to solve that issue before going anywhere else in my opinion.