Spartacus: Vengeance

[Takiwaki]

oh boy don't stop, I want to see where this goes!

[Qalbert]

Anyone who think anything justifies rape isn't worth talking to.

[EternityEnd]

...Lucretia effectively raped Crixus most of S1. Do you believe in instant forgiveness for crimes...?

Are you attempting to imply that lex talionis systems of conduct are justifiable, let alone sustainable? That's a pretty irresponsible, emotionally fueled mode of thought.

Of course, that itself is making the assumption that Lucretia was deliberately raping Crixus. Lucretia is responsible for countless heinous acts—tricking Spartacus and Illythia into have sex, being one of a sexual nature—but in Blood and Sand, it's rather clearly shown that Lucretia thought Crixus to be in love with her. She had every reason to believe that their sex was consensual, and was not endeavoring to inflict pain on Crixus.

[Hushigoshi]

don't forget Ashur raped the hot version of Naevia multiple times. Hence why she wanted to fight him in the finale.

Ashur had to die, which sucks because he was played by an amazing actor. Really brought out how much of a snake Ashur was.

[Kanriel]

Are you attempting to imply that lex talionis systems of conduct are justifiable, let alone sustainable? That's a pretty irresponsible, emotionally fueled mode of thought.

Of course, that itself is making the assumption that Lucretia was deliberately raping Crixus. Lucretia is responsible for countless heinous acts—tricking Spartacus and Illythia into have sex, being one of a sexual nature—but in Blood and Sand, it's rather clearly shown that Lucretia thought Crixus to be in love with her. She had every reason to believe that their sex was consensual, and was not endeavoring to inflict pain on Crixus.

Do you people watch the same show I do? People can die in a moments notice and few people care. In fact, unless it's a wife of a main character, no one gives two shits about it in this world. And rape is supposed to be a major crime in this system?

As well, just because the perpetrator believes the person is enjoying it doesn't mean it isn't rape.

And my argument is more that in the world of spartacus, lives do not hold the value we place upon them in this world and sex does not hold its value either. It is more akin to entertainment than the "sex is love" deep bond definition we hold these days. Pretty much every single character on the show has committed a heinous, terrible act according to our standards this day, and yet it is seemingly common practice back then. If you held everyone on the show accountable for their actions based on todays stigma the only person not in jail or given the death penalty (depending on state that prosecutes them) would be Oenimous because his terrible actions were done as a youth, but then he's black so he'd probably get the chair anyway.

[EternityEnd]

You said a whole lot of nothing there. Rape isn't justifiable, and just because the person being raped was "evil" doesn't dissolve the act of its reprehensibility. Boiling any three dimensional human down to "good" and "evil"—especially one as wonderfully complex as Lucretia—does neither your analytical abilities nor the character justice.

The rest of your post either draws out and attacks things I never verbalized or, hilariously, says exactly what I did: that lex talionis (i.e., an eye for an eye) reasoning is facile. It doesn't work. I never talked about whether anything was a crime. To assert, though, that Lucretia shouldn't be empathized with after being raped repeatedly—implying that she deserved it—due to her treatment of Crixus, which was incomparable on both a physical and moral level, is rather monstrous. I can only conclude that you have no real life context with which to temper your disconcerting philosophy that it's okay to rape some people—you know, as long as they deserve the cruel, inhumane punishment.

Frankly, I have no idea what overarching point you're trying to make with this left field talk of the Roman criminal justice system. Continue thinking Ashur, of all people, is an antihero, however.

[ArchDizzle]

STOP RUINING THE BEST SHOW ON TV THREAD.

[Takedown3]

best show on TV... although it all downhill from here i suspect. here's to me being wrong!

[Kanriel]

You said a whole lot of nothing there. Rape isn't justifiable, and just because the person being raped was "evil" doesn't dissolve the act of its reprehensibility. Boiling any three dimensional human down to "good" and "evil"—especially one as wonderfully complex as Lucretia—does neither your analytical abilities nor the character justice.

The rest of your post either draws out and attacks things I never verbalized or, hilariously, says exactly what I did: that lex talionis (i.e., an eye for an eye) reasoning is facile. It doesn't work. I never talked about whether anything was a crime. To assert, though, that Lucretia shouldn't be empathized with after being raped repeatedly—implying that she deserved it—due to her treatment of Crixus, which was incomparable on both a physical and moral level, is rather monstrous. I can only conclude that you have no real life context with which to temper your disconcerting philosophy that it's okay to rape some people—you know, as long as they deserve the cruel, inhumane punishment.

Frankly, I have no idea what overarching point you're trying to make with this left field talk of the Roman criminal justice system. Continue thinking Ashur, of all people, is an antihero, however.

A ton of things done in this series is morally reprehensible. I didn't hear anyone complain about Batiatus being murdered, other than "he was such a good character it sucks to lose him" but no moral outrage over that action. Was there any outrage over Crixus murdering his own unborn child?

My point is if you're going to consider rape such a monstrous thing, what about everything else terrible done on the show? Or is rape the only terrible thing done on the show in your opinion?

And when you put things into context of the overall story, you can claim Asher is more "opportunistic" than "evil", and thus closer to an antihero (or my correction the 'lovable rogue') than a villain.

[Qalbert]

a rapist cannot be a lovable character. end of fucking story.

[Kanriel]

I feel bad for Asher after watching him die.

I feel like Asher went out in such a garbage way for a great character. That's probably what bothered me the most from that episode.

Man, still pissed off today. Thinking on that wasted ten minutes of horribly crappy new Naevia "standing up for herself"........ that chick needs to be replaced. Ashur was a great character that you loved to hate. They could have done an infinite amount of shit with him, but they made his death as shitty as they did with Mira. The season wasn't bad at all but by far bottom of the series. I would have been happier having the previous episode as the finale.

He seems to have quite a few fans though...

[Qalbert]

He is a great, well written character. He is not a loveable rogue. Quit trying to apply terms when you don't know what the fuck they mean.

[Kanriel]

I never said he was, I said he was closer to one than being an outright villain. I never expected a random offshoot comment to be taken incorrectly and then overanalyzed.

[orson]

I've decided to start watching this show and I wondering should I watch Blood and Sand first or Gods of the Arena? I haven't read anything about the show yet other than I know about it's troubles during production and that Gods of the Arena is a prequel.

[Kanriel]

I've decided to start watching this show and I wondering should I watch Blood and Sand first or Gods of the Arena? I haven't read anything about the show yet other than I know about it's troubles during production and that Gods of the Arena is a prequel.

I would just watch it how it aired. I think it makes the most sense that way because that's how they produced it. So Blood and Sand, then Gods of the Arena.

[Qalbert]

watch blood and sand first, the first episode of Gods of the Arena starts at the end of B&S and flashes back, so it's pretty spoilery

[Caiyuo]

Yeah I don't feel like Gods of the Arena would have nearly the impact without having seen Blood and Sand, they're very much created to be seen as they aired

[orson]

Cool thanks for the info.

[Killerme]

I've decided to start watching this show and I wondering should I watch Blood and Sand first or Gods of the Arena? I haven't read anything about the show yet other than I know about it's troubles during production and that Gods of the Arena is a prequel.

Not knowing, I watched Gods of the Arena first. Aside from the major spoiler mentioned by others, I thought it actually worked well. That said, watching them in the order the aired is probably the better option.

[carmondiaz9]

It look great movie.nice sharing.