Hate Crime or Not?

[test123]

Hate crimes only apply to white males.

[Elvis]

Intent does matter. Hate crimes are an important classification.

The MOTIVATIONS for an action matter.

That's how we differentiate.

Hate crimes reveal troubling sociological currents in a society.

It doesn't have to be a case of what is worse (hate v non-hate) but the distinction itself has value. I certainly think that hate-crimes are profound enough to warrant recognition.

Why do we differentiate between white collar and blue collar crime? What are the trends in both? Clearly, you can - within a close approximation - almost define the characteristics of these crimes. The usual perpetrators, methods, etc.

What if there was a high amount of hate-crimes (let's add, hypothetically, that you all agree that from a list of designated hate crimes in a State -> that all were correctly identified as such) in a region of our country? It tells you something.

[archibaldcrane]

hardly a child at 14, and certainly less of a child if they're executing people. kids think stupid shit, that doesn't give them a free pass to execute people based on those stupid beliefs.

No one is advocating he gets a free pass for murder.

However, this is America. Freedom to think what we like is pretty fucking important.

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[Chun Liroy]

hardly a child at 14, and certainly less of a child if they're executing people. kids think stupid shit, that doesn't give them a free pass to execute people based on those stupid beliefs.

What Day said, but I do think that this comes with a level of maturity, and you are not even close to being mature at 14. Since we're talking about "in the eyes of the law," with all this hate crime argument, in the eyes of the law, he IS a child.

Intent does matter. Hate crimes are an important classification.

The MOTIVATIONS for an action matter.

That's how we differentiate.

Like others said... it only matters as far as determining the severity of a crime (1st/2nd manslaughter etc.), and it doesn't change the result, which is that a person was murdered.

[Elvis]

What defines a hate crime though? You have to take action against someone, right?

That's when your belief (which you have the freedom to have) affects someone else.

[solanis]

No one is advocating he gets a free pass for murder.

However, this is America. Freedom to think what we like is pretty fucking important.

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you can think whatever you like. when you start killing people because of it, there's a problem. expect to be punished for it.

[Elvis]

Like others said... it only matters as far as determining the severity of a crime (1st/2nd manslaughter etc.), and it doesn't change the result, which is that a person was murdered.

The entire point of a hate crime, is that it's not an isolated incident.

The result is not the issue; and I didn't say one was 'worse' than the other.

[archibaldcrane]

you can think whatever you like. when you start killing people because of it, there's a problem. expect to be punished for it.

No one is saying he shouldn't be punished for murdering this gay kid. Stop the straw man.

Shits already illegal.

Do you think hate crime laws deter crimes?

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[*Shinzon*]

you can think whatever you like. when you start killing people because of it, there's a problem. expect to be punished for it.

What in the hell are you talking about? His motive for the murder is going to determine the harshness of the sentence levied against him. So what exactly are you advocating for? Murder is one of the most severe criminal charges one can be tried with, why does calling it a hate crime matter? Even if they were to charge him with a hate crime offense they would have to still prove the murder charge, why complicate the matter? He's going away and the jury will see the crime for what it was.

[solanis]

What in the hell are you talking about? His motive for the murder is going to determine the harshness of the sentence levied against him. So what exactly are you advocating for? Murder is one of the most severe criminal charges one can be tried with, why does calling it a hate crime matter? Even if they were to charge him with a hate crime offense they would have to still prove the murder charge, why complicate the matter? He's going away and the jury will see the crime for what it was.

I'm advocating hate crime legislation. are you seriously arguing for not prosecuting him to the full extent of the law because it's too complicated? what the fuck rofl

[Day]

What do you expect to be gained from "hate crime legislation"? As Arch asked, do you think hate crime laws deter crimes? Wouldn't you have to make the penalty for committing a "hate crime" higher than murder itself to have any kind of theoretical effects?

"Was totally going to kill that dude, then I found out he was gay, so I decided not to since they'd tack a few more years on my life sentence."

Retard logic.

[*Shinzon*]

I'm advocating hate crime legislation. are you seriously arguing for not prosecuting him to the full extent of the law because it's too complicated? what the fuck rofl

No, I'm telling you he's already getting the maximum that can be levied against him. The case would likely generate a life in prison charge. Adding a difficult to prove hate crime charge without allow room for mitigating mental circumstances would be very difficult. In fact it might open the door to get him a lesser sentence. He's going to get life, adding a hate crime charge isn't going to get him any worse.

In fact what you appear to be arguing for is legislation making it an offense to have a biased opinion. In other words having control over people's thoughts because what they think offends you. Get the fuck out of here with that PC bullshit. I can think whatever I want as long as it doesn't affect you, and when it does affect you there are already laws in place to deal with that.

[Dimmauk]

Don't people murder people and usually think they will get away with it?

[Yuri-G]

so people who are against hate crimes are also against the classification of first, second, or third degree murder right? heck, why not even get rid of manslaughter... intent doesn't matter, just the act?

of course I'm being satirical, and of course it's not that simple. but as much as I hate the thought-crime aspect of hate crimes, it's already a part of our legal system.

[Xno Kappa]

As someone who works in law enforcement, I can truly say solanis should be nominated for BG troll of the summer.

[Uzor]

Also; hate crime laws are are colorblind and can be abused. If a black person commits a crime against a white person, argument can be made that it was a hate crime. And in many situations, it has been used as a mean to further penalize minorities. This argument changed the law slightly, and now the argument is made that crimes against white are somehow less inferior and less worthy than crimes against minorities. Which is absolutely retarded, and why hate crime laws should be removed or at least be overlooked.

The way hate crimes look now; if you belong to a majority group, you're worth less.

[Xno Kappa]

Hate crimes are mostly PC bullshit most prosecutors worth their salt won't go after. Not in my experience at least.

[Neoscrilla]

Hate Crimes - A Savage Hypocracy

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clip...-now-committee

[ronin sparthos]

Four pages and no death penalty advocates?

[Day]

so people who are against hate crimes are also against the classification of first, second, or third degree murder right? heck, why not even get rid of manslaughter... intent doesn't matter, just the act?

of course I'm being satirical, and of course it's not that simple. but as much as I hate the thought-crime aspect of hate crimes, it's already a part of our legal system.

Intent clearly matters and it would be silly to argue against that. However what doesn't matter is the color of skin, sexual preference, or dick size of the victim. That should all be handled in the current "intent" laws. Again, if the punishment for murder isn't severe enough to deter the murder, a few more years or whatever the "hate crime" is going to tack isn't going to help. We should increase the penalty for murder if the current one isn't "doing it's job". I don't think homos being murdered for being homo is commonplace enough to have a special set of laws for anyways. This isn't 1943 or whatever year Solanis is living in.