Hate Crime or Not?

[archibaldcrane]

Seriously though Solanis, do you think this 14-year old should get enhanced with either the death penalty or "without the possibility of parole" on top of his life sentence for first-degree murder?

[solanis]

Seriously though Solanis, do you think this 14-year old should get enhanced with either the death penalty or "without the possibility of parole" on top of his life sentence for first-degree murder?

that's up to the jury. no parole should definitely be on the table, though

[archibaldcrane]

You really think a 14-year old has, of all things, sexual orientation "figured out" to the point where he should be 100% held responsible for his THOUGHTS at that age? He's already being tried as an adult for his actions.

Jesus Christ.

Also, you still haven't answered whether you think hate crime laws are effective deterrents.

[Ksandra]

You really think a 14-year old has, of all things, sexual orientation "figured out" to the point where he should be 100% held responsible for his THOUGHTS at that age? He's already being tried as an adult for his actions.

This I find a little odd actually. The whole point of having separate laws for adults and children is the fact that children (in the eyes of the law) do not have the same awareness of the crime as an adult does.

How is he allowed to be tried as an adult when he did it as a kid?

I'm not very knowledgeable on that part of the law.

[Chun Liroy]

This I find a little odd actually. The whole point of having separate laws for adults and children is the fact that children (in the eyes of the law) do not have the same awareness of the crime as an adult does.

How is he allowed to be tried as an adult when he did it as a kid?

I'm not very knowledgeable on that part of the law.

I'm not sure in this case, but I know that they'll wait for a kid to turn 18 if they're 17, because by then I would hope they have some sense of right/wrong and what's ok to do and what's not.

[hey]

This I find a little odd actually. The whole point of having separate laws for adults and children is the fact that children (in the eyes of the law) do not have the same awareness of the crime as an adult does.

How is he allowed to be tried as an adult when he did it as a kid?

I'm not very knowledgeable on that part of the law.

I think the problem is that if he were tried as a child, he would be released when he was 18~ (not sure if that varies by state?), which is obviously not going to fly for a HATE CRIME murder. So to avoid that, he is tried as an adult. The problem is that he is then held to an entirely different standard as well, with much harsher sentences.

There should really be a way for kids to be charged as kids, and still receive sentences that go past their 18th birthday for cases such as this.

[Ksandra]

I'm not sure in this case, but I know that they'll wait for a kid to turn 18 if they're 17, because by then I would hope they have some sense of right/wrong and what's ok to do and what's not.

point is though, he may be an adult when he goes to trial, but that doesn't change the fact he was a kid when he actually did it. The fact he (may) regret it now doesn't change what he thought when actually did it.

I think the problem is that if he were tried as a child, he would be released when he was 18~ (not sure if that varies by state?), which is obviously not going to fly for a HATE CRIME murder. So to avoid that, he is tried as an adult. The problem is that he is then held to an entirely different standard as well, with much harsher sentences.

There should really be a way for kids to be charged as kids, and still receive sentences that go past their 18th birthday for cases such as this.

I agree there should change that if it means he'd get out at 18. But I guess my question is, how is that legally allowed in the first place (to wait for him to reach 18 then trial)?

[Demosthenes11]

kid grew up in a brainwashing environment. should get like 20 years and therapy

[hey]

I agree there should change that if it means he'd get out at 18. But I guess my question is, how is that legally allowed in the first place (to wait for him to reach 18 then trial)?

There is no requirement to be 18 to be charged as an adult. Kids as young as 12, or sometimes younger get charged as adult all the time.

[Ksandra]

There is no requirement to be 18 to be charged as an adult. Kids as young as 12, or sometimes younger get charged as adult all the time.

Is that basically something where they do a pretrial and if they feel the crime is severe enough the kid can get tried as an adult?

[hey]

I have no idea. I just know it happens, at least in some states. I would think so though.

[Chun Liroy]

So what happens if a 9 year old brutally stabs his younger, attention grabbing sibling?

[*Shinzon*]

point is though, he may be an adult when he goes to trial, but that doesn't change the fact he was a kid when he actually did it. The fact he (may) regret it now doesn't change what he thought when actually did it.



I agree there should change that if it means he'd get out at 18. But I guess my question is, how is that legally allowed in the first place (to wait for him to reach 18 then trial)?

It comes down to whether or not prosecutors, judge allowing, can show and prove that the child has a working understand of right and wrong. They then have to prove that child had the mens rea, or intent and knowledge to commit a crime knowing it was wrong, in order to try as an adult. Most children who commit crimes don't fit into both categories because either they don't understand right or wrong or didn't intend to knowingly act wrongly. It's technically more complicated than that but a lot of that work to determine those factors happen behind closed doors and sometimes in sealed family court proceedings.

[Dimmauk]

Calling bullshit on the 14 year old not knowing that murder is bad. Do people think any law is a deterrent?

[archibaldcrane]

So what happens if a 9 year old brutally stabs his younger, attention grabbing sibling?

Obvious hate crime. Attention grabbers have been a long-persecuted minority and need to be protected.

[archibaldcrane]

Calling bullshit on the 14 year old not knowing that murder is bad. Do people think any law is a deterrent?

Hell, I know that laws are deterrents to myself - not so much the idea of "there is a punishment" but more "there is a punishment and I may get caught". Shooting someone point-blank at school isn't exactly "A Perfect Murder".

[solanis]

Obvious hate crime. Attention grabbers have been a long-persecuted minority and need to be protected.

naw man she was asking for it

[Ksandra]

I looked it up I guess murder is often outside the idea of juvenile laws.

For Cali (where this case happened):

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-librar...-an-adult.html

California - a juvenile is anyone under the age of 18. Anyone 14 years and older can be tried as an adult for serious crimes. Examples of serious crimes include murder, robbery with a weapon, and rape.

So I guess that answers my question lol.

[ronin sparthos]

By 14, you know shooting someone in the back of the head doesn't fly well with people. Seems he grew up in an abusive household but plenty of people have and they didn't resort to murder as a way of venting.

He deserves every day of the life sentence with or without the hate crime label.

Edit: Also, where are the parents in this?

[hey]

Do people think any law is a deterrent?

A deterrent? Yes. it's just about on the scale of offering someone $20 to not kill someone.

Hell, I know that laws are deterrents to myself - not so much the idea of "there is a punishment" but more "there is a punishment and I may get caught". Shooting someone point-blank at school isn't exactly "A Perfect Murder".

That just means you need to plan better to get away with it.