Hate Crime or Not?

[Chun Liroy]

Hell, I know that laws are deterrents to myself - not so much the idea of "there is a punishment" but more "there is a punishment and I may get caught". Shooting someone point-blank at school isn't exactly "A Perfect Murder".

Adults committing crimes often commit them believing they won't get caught, thus punishment isn't a deterrent. not directed at you, but just about the thoughts of deterrents in general.

[Arrmani]

I really hope someone explained the concept of intent to Uzor. I'm not reading through 6 pages of an idiot arguing.

I think killing a kid because he is gay or a man because he is black is a hate crime. Its still murder like any other murder, but the intent is different. Its different than someone killing their wives secret love (heat of passion), deliberately planning for gain (premeditated/conspiracy), accidentally (real accident[manslaughter] or intended to harm but not kill[second degree]). This is the reason why judges have discretion over punishment, and there are different laws with guidelines for the punishment. The intent makes all the difference.

[Dimmauk]

Hell, I know that laws are deterrents to myself - not so much the idea of "there is a punishment" but more "there is a punishment and I may get caught". Shooting someone point-blank at school isn't exactly "A Perfect Murder".

I agree, but you can't say you have never broken a law even though you knew it was illegal. If that law was more strict then you probably wouldn't have done it. Unless you are a psychopath.

[Day]

I really hope someone explained the concept of intent to Uzor. I'm not reading through 6 pages of an idiot arguing.

I think killing a kid because he is gay or a man because he is black is a hate crime. Its still murder like any other murder, but the intent is different. Its different than someone killing their wives secret love (heat of passion), deliberately planning for gain (premeditated/conspiracy), accidentally (real accident[manslaughter] or intended to harm but not kill[second degree]). This is the reason why judges have discretion over punishment, and there are different laws with guidelines for the punishment. The intent makes all the difference.

You should try reading the thread. Also you're fucking dumb. The intent is to kill.

[Arrmani]

The action is to kill, the intent was because he is gay. Are you trying to say that there shouldn't be a category of hate crime just because it adds more punishment on to 1st degree murder, which is life in prison or death as it is? You're a dumb ass if you don't think any crime can be motivated by hate.

Also, I think intent helps to determine if parole is available and if it should be granted. So he could come up on parole and either say he's rehabilitated from murder, or maybe it'll happen again because he can't stand the gays.

And for juveniles, it really depends on the state, but from what I know, juvenile court system is a bunch of shit as it is. The punishment for juveniles has gone up recently and usually involves incarceration. For murder, I think someone said earlier, was to prove whether or not the juvenile had intent and knew the consequences of the actions. Another problem is how the public would feel about a juvenile murderer to be released after a few years whenever they turn 18. I read a case where a juvenile was held until 27 or so, which I think was 15 years, but spent some of that in prison.

[Ksandra]

The action is to kill, the intent was because he is gay.

wut?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/intent

Law . the state of a person's mind that directs his or her actions toward a specific object.

The state of the person's mind is to kill. Hence, the intent was to kill.

The fact the kid was gay was the motivation, not the intent.

[Chun Liroy]

The action is to kill, the intent was because he is gay. Are you trying to say that there shouldn't be a category of hate crime just because it adds more punishment on to 1st degree murder, which is life in prison or death as it is? You're a dumb ass if you don't think any crime can be motivated by hate.

Stopped reading here. You are retarded. the MOTIVE is racism. The intent is to kill. You can't intent because he was gay, try reading what the fuck you just said.

[Arrmani]

Yeah I changed that before posting, prolly shouldn't have.

[Day]

Are you trying to say that there shouldn't be a category of hate crime just because it adds more punishment on to 1st degree murder, which is life in prison or death as it is?

If you had read the thread like everyone else you would know that is exactly what I'm saying.

1st degree murder punishment should fit the crime. If not, then increase it. We don't need this extra shit. I think most murders are probably done out of "hate".

[aduidarnenye]

I think it's silly to label murder with the tag "hate crime". All murders are hate crimes, regardless of the victim.

I think the only crimes that should be labelled hate crimes are lesser crimes, such as racist grafitti (not the only example obviously).

The whole concept of hate crimes are pretty silly and really ought to be removed from justice systems.

[Dimmauk]

LOL @ whites telling minorities that hate crime laws are meaningless. Shouldn't be talking about hate crimes unless you've been hated on

[Chun Liroy]

LOL @ whites telling minorities that hate crime laws are meaningless. Shouldn't be talking about hate crimes unless you've been hated on

Because it is impossible to take on the perspective of other people. Do you think that affirmative action legalities should exist as well?

[solanis]

LOL @ whites telling minorities that hate crime laws are meaningless. Shouldn't be talking about hate crimes unless you've been hated on

seriously, sure is a lot of white cisgendered men preaching about their super important opinions in here

[Day]

We are the majority. I think we should decide whats best for the majority. If you don't like it solanis take it to DC.

[Dimmauk]

Because it is impossible to take on the perspective of other people. Do you think that affirmative action legalities should exist as well?

Btw, I forgot to mention that gays are in that minority. I can see how Affirmative action helps and I also lost a spot on varsity baseball in high-school because they needed a black Guy on the team lol

[Day]

FYI getting called a spic isn't a hate crime dimmy

[Tyrath]

This I find a little odd actually. The whole point of having separate laws for adults and children is the fact that children (in the eyes of the law) do not have the same awareness of the crime as an adult does.

How is he allowed to be tried as an adult when he did it as a kid?

I'm not very knowledgeable on that part of the law.

I've never understood the whole "being tried as an adult" deal myself. Because the whole idea is someone isn't an adult and no matter what they do their actions can't be taken as that of an adult.

LOL @ whites telling minorities that hate crime laws are meaningless. Shouldn't be talking about hate crimes unless you've been hated on

I'm not white and I still think the idea of hate crime is dumb. People should be held accountable for their actions, not the fact that their victim was in the minority.

[Chun Liroy]

Btw, I forgot to mention that gays are in that minority. I can see how Affirmative action helps and I also lost a spot on varsity baseball in high-school because they needed a black Guy on the team lol

We want everyone to be equal but first we must give them an unequal advantage.

[Arrmani]

I did read the thread, and I guess you have a point that most murders are done out of hate, but not all. My prof had a bunch of stupid examples in class that mainly had to do with someone getting killed because the murderer was an idiot (like leaving explosives with a hostage/victim) or something incredibly ridiculous happened (smoking a cigarette while pumping gas caused an explosion that killed someone blocks away). I don't think someone robbing a gas station that murders the cashier is done out of hate, because its just a random person. That would be felony murder I think, which is basically 1st degree. Now if someone murdered a cashier just because he was black, then stole the money, it would be a different situation is the point I'm trying to make. And, also as someone said earlier, that would be a lot harder to prove. Would it be worth it? Probably not, but it would make a difference to the family. Just increasing the punishment isn't always best, because at some point it encourages more crime (referring to hate crimes not murder).

Anyway, I'm not a lawyer (because I'd obviously be bad at it anyway), but hate crimes are there because people still commit crime based on it. I don't think labeling something a hate crime makes it any more or less equal to another crime because I feel like it's a reasoning someone could use to justify their actions. If my cashier example isn't good enough, I'll try to think of another.

[solanis]

We want everyone to be equal but first we must give them an unequal advantage.

unequal advantages are the only way to make equality a reality. I think they call it "leveling the playing field"

We are the majority. I think we should decide whats best for the majority. If you don't like it solanis take it to DC.

I love this logic tbh