Hate Crime or Not?

[Day]

Why is the distinction needed between murder of a white guy and murder of a black guy for example? What do you hope to gain from making this distinction and why do you feel if we have "hate crime" laws that it will deter anyone from murder/beatings? Do you think existing punishments for these crimes do not currently fit the crime?

[Dimmauk]

We want everyone to be equal but first we must give them an unequal advantage.

If only we lived in a perfect world.

[Day]

unequal advantages are the only way to make equality a reality. I think they call it "leveling the playing field"

I love this logic, makes me feel so much better about being unapologetically richer than you can ever dream of

dumbest thing I've ever read.

[Byrthnoth]

Something is a hate crime if their actions were motivated by hate of another demographic. It's the same crime, but it's sort of an extra tag on the end to note intent. I think it definitely has a place.

For instance, lets say that some guy walks into a bar and shoots another customer. Two cases:
A) The guy he shot hit his kid with a car and drove off earlier that day, not calling an ambulance.
B) The guy he shot was black and had no contact with the perp pre-shooting.

I don't know about you guys, but for me A would be minimum sentence and B would be maximum possible. Understanding motivation for a crime is critical in understanding the probability of future criminal behavior, which should be the major motivating factor when deciding how long to lock people up for.

[ronin sparthos]

We want everyone to be equal but first we must give them an unequal advantage.

We can talk about equality all day but the reality is different.

[solanis]

dumbest thing I've ever read.

thought experiment time. let's say we want to make you and me equal financially and in the job market. I have a better education, an ongoing career, and exponentially more money in the bank. we then say, okay you two, go get a job. we won't be basing it off anything other than who you are! do you think you would have an equal chance?

[Arrmani]

I didn't mean just a white guy and a black guy, but say some black guy doesn't like hispanics. It would be a hate crime too because its racially motivated. If a guy was murdered for being white, I think that would still be considered a hate crime, though juries love to convict minorities it seems.

Something is a hate crime if their actions were motivated by hate of another demographic. It's the same crime, but it's sort of an extra tag on the end to note intent. I think it definitely has a place.

For instance, lets say that some guy walks into a bar and shoots another customer. Two cases:
A) The guy he shot hit his kid with a car and drove off earlier that day, not calling an ambulance.
B) The guy he shot was black and had no contact with the perp pre-shooting.

I don't know about you guys, but for me A would be minimum sentence and B would be maximum possible. Understanding motivation for a crime is critical in understanding the probability of future criminal behavior, which should be the major motivating factor when deciding how long to lock people up for.

This is kinda what I'm getting at, but it's not exactly that simple. Both crimes are done out of hate, but I think a hate crime more refers to anything racial and sexual orientation now I guess.

[Day]

Something is a hate crime if their actions were motivated by hate of another demographic. It's the same crime, but it's sort of an extra tag on the end to note intent. I think it definitely has a place.

For instance, lets say that some guy walks into a bar and shoots another customer. Two cases:
A) The guy he shot hit his kid with a car and drove off earlier that day, not calling an ambulance.
B) The guy he shot was black and had no contact with the perp pre-shooting.

I don't know about you guys, but for me A would be minimum sentence and B would be maximum possible. Understanding motivation for a crime is critical in understanding the probability of future criminal behavior, which should be the major motivating factor when deciding how long to lock people up for.

Jesus can you guys derp any harder. We already have intent and such. It's how you distinguish between 1st, 2nd degree murder etc... color of victims skin should never matter. It only add to the division. We are all people and should be treated as such. That's true equality.

[Dimmauk]

Only athletes, rich people, and bad mothers/whores get away with murder these days. Oh and the American government. LOL

[Day]

thought experiment time. let's say we want to make you and me equal financially and in the job market. I have a better education, an ongoing career, and exponentially more money in the bank. we then say, okay you two, go get a job. we won't be basing it off anything other than who you are! do you think you would have an equal chance?

You wouldn't stand a chance. You have no charisma or personality and in general just a douche. You would be begging me to hire you in 2 years.

[solanis]

the point is that you couldn't, day. I have too many advantages that you wouldn't possibly be able to top. you would require some outside help or advantages to beat me, so that we could proceed from an equal footing. same goes for minorities. this is why their "advantages" aren't "unfair"

[Day]

I didn't mean just a white guy and a black guy, but say some black guy doesn't like hispanics. It would be a hate crime too because its racially motivated. If a guy was murdered for being white, I think that would still be considered a hate crime, though juries love to convict minorities it seems.




This is kinda what I'm getting at, but it's not exactly that simple. Both crimes are done out of hate, but I think a hate crime more refers to anything racial and sexual orientation now I guess.

1. Why does color of skin/sexual preference matter at all? Seems like some kind of reverse racism shit that is just unnecessary.
2. Again, his example has nothing to do with a "hate crime", yes the intent and motives are different clearly, but that's why we have 1st, 2nd degree etc...

[Day]

the point is that you couldn't, day. I have too many advantages that you wouldn't possibly be able to top. you would require some outside help or advantages to beat me, so that we could proceed from an equal footing. same goes for minorities. this is why their "advantages" aren't "unfair"

Nah was a shitty analogy. I would get hired over you 90% of the time. I don't need assistance, neither do minorities.

[solanis]

Nah was a shitty analogy. I would get hired over you 90% of the time. I don't need assistance, neither do minorities.

well I suppose your confidence is endearing, though delusional

[Day]

well I suppose your confidence is endearing, though delusional

Right backachta fashionbabylon

[solanis]

this nigga so mad

[Day]

hate crime

feel free to point out the "mad"... I guess it's the only card you have left to play after strawman and oppressed transgender cards.

[Arrmani]

You're right that it shouldn't matter, but it does. Basically, the difference between 1st and 2nd is 1st is planned murder or murder during another crime, and 2nd is murder that was either unplanned or unintended.

I'm just gonna leave that first part, but you're right Day. No matter the situation, even if it was racially motivated, it prolly isn't a big enough factor to warrant a separate factor to the crime. I was going to make a point about the second case where if those kids beat up and ran over a white guy instead, it would still be murder and trying to prove anything else wouldn't matter. I was going to say if it was a hate crime it could influence the punishment decision, but it wouldn't really change the class of crime.

[Byrthnoth]

Jesus can you guys derp any harder. We already have intent and such. It's how you distinguish between 1st, 2nd degree murder etc... color of victims skin should never matter. It only add to the division. We are all people and should be treated as such. That's true equality.

I agree, which is why it's notable when someone makes a distinction based on something as arbitrary as the color of someone's skin or sexual orientation. It's worth noting that they're not very logical people, and worth considering when you're writing the punishment.

[Day]

I agree, which is why it's notable when someone makes a distinction based on something as arbitrary as the color of someone's skin or sexual orientation. It's worth noting that they're not very logical people, and worth considering when you're writing the punishment.

This is true and should be part of the prosecution, I just don't feel it warrants the need for extra laws/crimes based on skin color or dick loving.