Riots in London

[*Shinzon*]

Since you're having difficulty comprehending, I'll say it again:

The focus should be on improving police response so that this kind of situation can be handled more effectively in the future. In my mind, the potential for this kind of situation to arise and subsequently be learned from is a small price to pay for living in a country where school shootings, domestic shootings, gunman rampages and accidental deaths of children caused by firearms kept in the home are far less common than they are in the US.

I don't know too many brits, but I'd go out on a limb and say the people watching their property burn don't agree with you. Then again I don't have any right to argue the situation and I don't plan to. But I'd most certainly arm myself right quick after watching my store front burn.

What I find funny here is the distinction being made between the two cultures really. On the one side you have the US that for the most part has powerful police forces that are trained to use force and a culture that also believes heavily in self defense. On the other side you have a culture that clearly doesn't approve of force and in fact is afraid of force to the point where even the police force cannot use adequate levels of force to quell disturbances. Fascinating really.

[drwaffles]

How fast do you think a policeman will get to you before the guy invading your home shoots you?

You're assuming that most burglars are packing heat, which simply isn't true.

I don't get why it's so difficult to understand that most people here would prefer to focus on preventative measures and better law enforcement rather than giving everyone the ability to blow someone's brains out if they enter their home without permission. I guess if you're desensitized to that kind of thing it just seems normal, but to a lot of people here it seems almost barbaric.

[drwaffles]

I don't know too many brits, but I'd go out on a limb and say the people watching their property burn don't agree with you. Then again I don't have any right to argue the situation and I don't plan to. But I'd most certainly arm myself right quick after watching my store front burn.

What I find funny here is the distinction being made between the two cultures really. On the one side you have the US that for the most part has powerful police forces that are trained to use force and a culture that also believes heavily in self defense. On the other side you have a culture that clearly doesn't approve of force and in fact is afraid of force to the point where even the police force cannot use adequate levels of force to quell disturbances. Fascinating really.

Way to make massive assumptions about an entire culture based off a single incident. Clearly if you're not prepared to shoot people dead in the name of protecting your assets then you're "afraid of force".

[Drex]

Since you're having difficulty comprehending, I'll say it again:

The focus should be on improving police response so that this kind of situation can be handled more effectively in the future. In my mind, the potential for this kind of situation to arise and subsequently be learned from is a small price to pay for living in a country where school shootings, domestic shootings, gunman rampages and accidental deaths of children caused by firearms kept in the home are far less common than they are in the US.

Guns save more innocent lives than they take. You don't even have to fire a gun to scare off a would-be criminal. It's rare for an innocent person to become a criminal just because they now have a gun. But unlawful people who lose their gun will still commit crimes.

Giving everyone a gun creates less victims, therefore less crime and less criminals.

[Correction]

The London police face a lose-lose-lose situation. Three days of unchecked escalation in rioting is going to reflect badly on their response to unrest in the poorer sections of town. Any response of force that results in injury is going to reflect badly on their ability to protect bystanders. Any long term solution to the weaknesses exposed in public protection that calls for in an increase in public safety spending will get entangled in the continuing debate over the European debt crisis. The largely absent leadership on both the municipal and national level gives me zero confidence that they'll improve on the status quo.

It is not a good week to be a cop in the United Kingdom.

[Cantih]

People who break in to homes here do not typically have guns. There is absolutely no reason you can't defend yourself in your home here, you just don't shoot somebody to do so. What makes you think a lack of guns means home intruders have free reign?

^

My LS mates in England used to occasionally mention the stabbing rate in London. I'd counter that the shooting rate in LA was higher, so they should stop being scared, 'cause I'm not. But the rates are near enough that I've posited since, "There are always some terrible people no matter where you go, and they will be terrible by any means available to them."

Loosening gun regulations in the UK will NOT lead to a decrease in violent crime, it'll just mean violent crime will switch from melee to firearms. The stakes will rise, nothing more.

[Draggy]

The talk about guns just reminds me of the farmer that lived in a town near me (Wisbeach I think) a decade back. Burglars entered his home and he shot at them (one boy got killed) and HE was the one that ended up going to prison for it :/

edit: just remembered his name http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_%28farmer%29

[*Shinzon*]

Way to make massive assumptions about an entire culture based off a single incident. Clearly if you're not prepared to shoot people dead in the name of protecting your assets then you're "afraid of force".

Yeah I'd say so. The way the police force responds directly reflects the culture's opinion about a certain thing. It's not a stretch. In fact I will agree with you in saying the English believe more in prevention as evidence of the CCTV network installed around the country, which is designed to curb criminal activity by letting people know they're always being watched. It wasn't meant to be offensive.

[Qalbert]

Everyone and their mums is packing 'round 'ere.

[Kiarax]

Guns save more innocent lives than they take. You don't even have to fire a gun to scare off a would-be criminal. It's rare for an innocent person to become a criminal just because they now have a gun. But unlawful people who lose their gun will still commit crimes.

Giving everyone a gun creates less victims, therefore less crime and less criminals.

Yeah, I can wave a knife at someone who breaks in to my home and scare him off too. I'd much rather test my fate with someone coming in to my home without a gun than with one. Saying guns save more innocent lives than they take is a total crock of shit, you can likely say the same thing about any weapon used for defence. Doesn't mean they're a good idea.

[Mots]

Rocks save more innocent lives than they take. You don't even have to throw a rock to scare off a would-be criminal. It's rare for an innocent person to become a criminal just because they now have a rock. But unlawful people who lose their rock will still commit crimes.

Giving everyone a rock creates less victims, therefore less crime and less criminals.

[*Shinzon*]

Yeah, I can wave a knife at someone who breaks in to my home and scare him off too. I'd much rather test my fate with someone coming in to my home without a gun than with one. Saying guns save more innocent lives than they take is a total crock of shit, you can likely say the same thing about any weapon used for defence. Doesn't mean they're a good idea.

No you can't. Especially not a hardened criminal. At least be realistic if you're gonna argue against what he's saying lol. Also there's a lot of US cops around hurr, so no surprise the stance on guns, at least from some people.

[Lestat]

People who break in to homes here do not typically have guns. There is absolutely no reason you can't defend yourself in your home here, you just don't shoot somebody to do so. What makes you think a lack of guns means home intruders have free reign?

I don't but most people don't have experiance defending themselves especially when caught off guard, it is also a major deterrence.

[Kiarax]

No you can't. Especially not a hardened criminal. At least be realistic if you're gonna argue against what he's saying lol.

I know a number of people who have had people break in to their homes and every single one of them have turned tail as soon as someone in the house comes at them. They didn't even have a weapon in every instance. You're delusional if you think it's common for burglars to be "hardened criminals".

[Tajin]

It went from riots with stupid kids to hardened criminals

[*Shinzon*]

I know a number of people who have had people break in to their homes and every single one of them have turned tail as soon as someone in the house comes at them. They didn't even have a weapon in every instance. You're delusional if you think it's common for burglars to be "hardened criminals".

Eh, you missed the point there champ. I'm talking about if someone is coming at you, a knife isn't going to do squat. Especially a guy who means business. I didn't imply anything else. The kind of guy who has the intention to rob you when you're not home isn't the guy who is going to come at you once they're inside anyway, that's a moot point.

[Dimmauk]

A couple months ago, some dumb fuckers broke into a house down the street from my house. They were greeted by Shotgun, and got blasted. One died, the other lost a hand. I bet someone wont break into his house again. I live in an old neighborhood that is military people, Katrina victims, and drug dealers. There is an unwritten rule in this area that you dont fuck with people's houses, or you will get fucked up. Mix Military people with Drug dealers and Black folks, and you find yourself well protected.

[Lestat]

You're assuming that most burglars are packing heat, which simply isn't true.

......

I don't get why it's so difficult to understand that most people here would prefer to focus on preventative measures and better law enforcement rather than giving everyone the ability to blow someone's brains out if they enter their home without permission. I guess if you're desensitized to that kind of thing it just seems normal, but to a lot of people here it seems almost barbaric.

Preventive measures are all well in good in preventing a lot of crime, but does not stop crime near enough for people to feel safe enough to keep there doors unlocked.. Those people who think it's barbaric stop thinking that way when someone robs them.

I see how that is working out for ya now. Lets see how long this will last before enough people get killed that the police will take it serious enough to do something pro active

[Mots]

Eh, you missed the point there champ. I'm talking about if someone is coming at you, a knife isn't going to do squat. Especially a guy who means business. I didn't imply anything else. The kind of guy who has the intention to rob you when you're not home isn't the guy who is going to come at you once they're inside.

I dunno about you but if a criminal got into my house with the intent to do me harm and I had a knife, his life would be forfeit. It really isn't that difficult ruin someones day if you have a knife unless you are completely inept/uncoordinated and drop the fucking thing.

[Lestat]

When idiot kids see no consequences to a situation such as this then all hell will break loose.

No Consequences= mayhem

Consequences= less mayhem