AMD A8-3850 APU with Radeon HD Graphics Processors

[LinktheDeme]

Been looking at these and they seem really cost efficient in terms of the processing power they provide for their price. I was wondering though how the GPU works out though. As I already have a Graphics Card however the processor contains a graphics card too? I'm not really interested in using the processor's Graphics Card as I could get much better, so I was wondering if there have been issues with these cards with regards to compatibility with the processor and GPU's. Any input on these processors would be appreciated, thanks.

[Isiolia]

Here's a review - though I think the pricing issue is mostly moot now as the board costs have come down. They also have a follow-up focusing on HTPC use.

Technically, Intel has GPUs integrated with their current CPUs too. They're not as high performance...but that's relative, as the AMD models are barely into discrete GPU territory anyway. You don't really need to worry about using one or the other as the behavior is the same as integrated graphics have been - if you have a discrete card, that's used intead. Like some of AMD's integrated GPUs in the past though, you can actually use the built in graphics in Crossfire with some of their low end discrete cards. The review above actually shows that to hinder performance more often than not though.

IMO, the main thing to look at with the A8-3850 is that it's the top end of the A8 series...and it competes (such as it is) with the bottom-end Intel desktop CPU. Glancing at Newegg, the CPU is $139.99, versus the i3 2100 at $124.99 or the i3 2105 (better integrated GPU) at $139.99 - keep in mind the i3 outperforms the 3850 outside of heavily threaded stuff (it's a dual core, the AMD is a quad core). Motherboard costs are similar, starting at maybe $70, though most of them are a bit more.

If you're using a discrete card I honestly don't see a reason to look at the A8 over an i3. Again consider that the the 3850 is currently the top end of the socket FM1 platform. The i3 2100/2105 are the bottom end for Intel - so the same motherboard/etc on that end will support a better CPU. If you don't mind paying a little more, and especially if you can get to a Microcenter, then there's really no contest - they have the i5 2400 for $149.99, i5 2500k for $179.99.

The A8s might be appealing if you were on a very tight budget and wanted to use the integrated GPU for gaming. As soon as you move to a discrete GPU though, they really lose any potential luster.

[Arkanna]

The Fusion platform's strength is in the power of its integrated graphics engine. It is quite a bit stronger than Intel's Sandy Bridge integrated graphics at this point, but the rub is, the Fusion platform's CPU is not much better than an Athlon II, and even though the integrated graphics engine is pretty damn good, it still does not compete with a discrete graphics card. If you already have a video card you intend to use, then Fusion is not for you.

If you're building an HTPC or a mom-and-pop browsing box, Fusion can handle both of those nicely.

If you're building a personal box for light gaming and your budget is tight, Fusion fits that situation fine.

If you're building a personal box for medium- to heavy-gaming, and you can afford a discrete graphics card, skip on Fusion and build a cheap Phenom II X4 or an Intel Core i3/i5/i7 box instead.

[Olo401]

.. or wait for the FX series CPUs, which are expected to hit the market sometime next month and, if the early tech reviews are right, compete with Sandy Bridge 1155 pretty evenly

[Arkanna]

.. or wait for the FX series CPUs, which are expected to hit the market sometime next month and, if the early tech reviews are right, compete with Sandy Bridge 1155 pretty evenly

Bulldozer should be good, yeah. Honestly though, anyone considering a Fusion box (including the OP) is probably doing so because of the price.

[Egon]

I did a Fusion build for my server. Spending $445 for a quad core is just epic.

[Isiolia]

I did a Fusion build for my server. Spending $445 for a quad core is just epic.

There are several Phenom II X4 choices that cost less than an A8-3850...at this point an X6 is $20 more (retail) or $5 more for OEM.

[Egon]

But I didn't have to buy a video card, or a good enough board that had on board video, that would suck anyway.

[Isiolia]

But I didn't have to buy a video card, or a good enough board that had on board video, that would suck anyway.

An 880G chipset (what's common these days, Radeon HD4250 integrated) mobo averages cheaper than an FM1 board. Granted, video performance is lower, but for a server that shouldn't be a problem. You could go even cheaper with an older board or something.

Just sayin' that Fusion isn't exactly bringing quad core to that price point. You could put together a hexacore for that (or less).

[Arkanna]

An 880G chipset (what's common these days, Radeon HD4250 integrated) mobo averages cheaper than an FM1 board. Granted, video performance is lower, but for a server that shouldn't be a problem. You could go even cheaper with an older board or something.

Just sayin' that Fusion isn't exactly bringing quad core to that price point. You could put together a hexacore for that (or less).

And not only that, the CPU half of Fusion is outperformed by Phenom II X4 or X6 easily. Fusion's highlight is its integrated video performance at its price point, and makes no sense for use in a server. At all.

[LinktheDeme]

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php this website lists that the A8-3850 outperforms all of the X4's and most of the X6's

[Isiolia]

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php this website lists that the A8-3850 outperforms all of the X4's and most of the X6's

It may well, as it could depend on how the benchmark in question works.

However, if you look at, well, nearly any set of multiple benchmarks...such as the ones at Anandtech, Tom's Hardware, Hot Hardware, Guru3D, or Benchmark Reviews, you can pretty readily see that it doesn't outperform all Phenom II X4s...in fact, the only ones it really does are older models. Does well against Athlon II X4s, but then those are much cheaper.

The point really still stands that the key feature of the Fusion line is the integrated GPU. If you're not using it, or the performance level isn't relevant, then it's not that exciting of a product at the current price.

[LinktheDeme]

wow really glad you posted all of those so i have more of an idea of what its range is around. Thanks a lot very appreciated.

[Egon]

/facepalm.

You know the max TDP of my APU is 100 watts. I undervolted it to 1.2v and under load I pull only about 60watts, from the entire system. Over a years time, I will have saved a lot more than the standard PII X4 or X6. I have an X6 system as my gaming rig, its nice, but I pull 600 watts under load.

$445.19 for the entire build. You can't have a quad core, running that low on power for that price. Fusion is the only way.

Oh and that's even with 8 gigs of 1866 RAM.

[Arkanna]

What all did you buy for $445? Case? Motherboard/CPU/RAM, hard drive(s), DVD? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Isiolia]

What all did you buy for $445? Case? Motherboard/CPU/RAM, hard drive(s), DVD? Inquiring minds want to know.

Aye, a $140 CPU, at least $70-80 for a board, more likely over $100, doesn't leave a lot for the rest. As mentioned, i5 2400 (95W TDP, GPU included) is $150 at Microcenter. H67 boards are no more expensive than FM1 boards. If you could build a $450 system around an A8-3850, presumably you could do approximately the same around that.

[Arkanna]

https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/M...px?ID=12205989

$184.99 - CPU - Intel Core i5-2300 Sandy Bridge (2.8ghz, 95W max TDP)
$64.99 - Motherboard - Foxconn LGA1155, H67 chipset, SATA III controller, Mini-ITX formfactor
$48.99 - Memory - 8GB Kingston HyperX DDR3-1600 (2 x 4GB)
$79.99 - Hard Drive - 1.5TB Western Digital Green, 64MB cache, SATA III
$49.99 - Case - Rosewill Mini-ITX case with 250W power supply, 1x external 5.25" bay, 1x internal 3.5" bay, 1x external 3.5" bay
$18.99 - DVD - LG DVD rewriter, does -R, -RW, +R, +RW
-------
$447.94 total

The wish list doesn't show a combo discount of $8 for the CPU and memory, so you can throw a cheap card reader in the case's external 3.5" bay just to make use of it.

So, for just under $450, you're getting:
- A Core i5 Sandy Bridge quad-core CPU that beats the pants off the A8-3850 (even the dual-core i3-2100 beats A8-3850 in most benchmarks) and sips power, since that's apparently important for this "server" build
- A motherboard that still provides more than adequate onboard video for any server-oriented build
- Memory that is more than adequate for this build (while DDR3-1866 helps the performance of A8-3850's graphics, it's unnecessary here)
- A hard drive that can hold 1.5TB, is "green", and has plenty of cache (also SATA III, but that's a non-factor for today's hard drives)
- A case that comes with a 250W PSU and is sufficient to hold all the hardware in this build
- A DVD burner that can do anything you need (no room for Blu-Ray in this budget)
- A card reader

Admittedly the case is of questionable quality, and if I had $50 more to spend, I'd pick up the Silverstone Sugo SG-05 case that I built my Minecraft/Terraria server box into. For yet another $50, I'd pick a better motherboard, probably one with 802.11N onboard. Also, as Isiolia mentioned, you could probably get all this cheaper if there's a Microcenter near you.

[Isiolia]

To be fair, 95 or 100W TDP is hardly sipping power either way. I think Intel's lowest TDP desktop CPU is the i3 2100T at 35W, and that comes in at $5 less than the A8. Not a quad core though. Still, there are 65W options n' stuff.

It's actually an angle I've looked at on it, since my interest in Fusion would be for HTPC use.

Either way, just to be clear, I'm not trying to dog on anyone for buying an A8 or whatever. If it works, and you're happy with it, great. The contention is more with claims of it being the sole solution for features/price point.

[Arkanna]

To be fair, 95 or 100W TDP is hardly sipping power either way. I think Intel's lowest TDP desktop CPU is the i3 2100T at 35W, and that comes in at $5 less than the A8. Not a quad core though. Still, there are 65W options n' stuff.

It's actually an angle I've looked at on it, since my interest in Fusion would be for HTPC use.

Either way, just to be clear, I'm not trying to dog on anyone for buying an A8 or whatever. If it works, and you're happy with it, great. The contention is more with claims of it being the sole solution for features/price point.

This, exactly.

(On the TDP rating thing, that's not really the best indicator of how much power a CPU pulls. I found a Core i5-2300 review via Google where the test system pulled 81W at idle from the wall, but that test system included an nVidia GTX 470 which according to Anandtech pulls 33W itself at idle, sooo...)

[Caiyuo]

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php this website lists that the A8-3850 outperforms all of the X4's and most of the X6's

It may well, as it could depend on how the benchmark in question works.

However, if you look at, well, nearly any set of multiple benchmarks...such as the ones at Anandtech, Tom's Hardware, Hot Hardware, Guru3D, or Benchmark Reviews, you can pretty readily see that it doesn't outperform all Phenom II X4s...in fact, the only ones it really does are older models. Does well against Athlon II X4s, but then those are much cheaper.

The point really still stands that the key feature of the Fusion line is the integrated GPU. If you're not using it, or the performance level isn't relevant, then it's not that exciting of a product at the current price.

was the variation on this like a considerable difference? I'd been using that site he linked for benchmarks recently and thought I'd found a gold-mine, but that's a little worrisome if there's much of a variation in what their single scores tell and what the sites who run multiple benchmarks are showing