Why libertarianism is foolish, and if you believe in it, so are you

[Olo401]

Wait.. you're telling me that I'm the only one here who's 100% with Kuya on this?

[Demosthenes11]

whenever somebody says they are libertarian, they are either an early 20s white male or retarded. better how you are in your early 20s, drex

[Kuya]

whenever somebody says they are libertarian, they are either an early 20s white male or retarded. better how you are in your early 20s, drex

There's also filthy stinking rich too. The Kohs are big on Rand.

[Cantih]

You're not the only one.
Though I wouldn't say 100%, implies the same fervor.

[wyrmtung]

Next up, I will try to convince you that the world is round and anyone who believes otherwise is foolish.

[Dimmauk]

how many of you own a car and have ever driven on a highway?

I have two cars, one is paid off. I also have a house payment. Did I win something?

[Kuya]

Next up, I will try to convince you that the world is round and anyone who believes otherwise is foolish.

I always found the occasional person showing up in a thread to say how much they already know about the subject somewhat douchy. Only thing missing is them telling you how high their IQ is for good measure.

Incidentally, it reminds me of libertarians and anarcho capitalists.

[wyrmtung]

I always found the occasional person showing up in a thread to say how much they already know about the subject somewhat douchy. Only thing missing is them telling you how high their IQ is for good measure.

Incidentally, it reminds me of libertarians and anarcho capitalists.

149 when I was tested in skool but I'm much dumber now.

Circle complete?

[Ksandra]

149 when I was tested in skool but I'm much dumber now.

your IQ doesn't change unless you had some sort of brain injury accident.

[Kuya]

149 when I was tested in skool but I'm much dumber now.

Circle complete?

You are a saint.

I think the article helps those who did not know who Robert Nozick was (i didn't), and it helps those who aren't used to arguing agaisnt libertarians. Tossing out the factoid that one of libertarianism's most ardent intellectual defenders dumped the ideology is a fanttastic rhetorical low blow, although a bit of a fallacy.

[Uzor]

Riddle a libertarian this: How can a place have high taxes, yet be so free that buying whores is legal? Fucking Scandinavia how does it work

Buying whores isn't legal. It is illegal and generally frowned upon! We're so against it that soccer became a huge political debate in Sweden back when German held it in 2006. It tore the country apart in to two sides; the side that refused to accept our Swedish soccer team going to play in a country that supports prostitution, and the side that believe football is not the right medium for a political debate. Made front page news for months with "expert panels" and what have you.

[Elvis]

What is happenin to my skoool?

[Kuya]

Buying whores isn't legal. It is illegal and generally frowned upon! We're so against it that soccer became a huge political debate in Sweden back when German held it in 2006. It tore the country apart in to two sides; the side that refused to accept our Swedish soccer team going to play in a country that supports prostitution, and the side that believe football is not the right medium for a political debate. Made front page news for months with "expert panels" and what have you.

lol

[Drex]

You are a saint.

I think the article helps those who did not know who Robert Nozick was (i didn't), and it helps those who aren't used to arguing agaisnt libertarians. Tossing out the factoid that one of libertarianism's most ardent intellectual defenders dumped the ideology is a fanttastic rhetorical low blow, although a bit of a fallacy.

He never gave up libertarianism, just became less hardcore about it. Shame he died before he could wisen up and renounce it. He's also hardly the "father" of libertarianism, he just revitalized it because he was pissed about the Great Society.

If you really want to make a libertarian feel stupid, bring up the Miracle of Chile or the '90s in Argentina. Utopia here we come!

[Kuya]

He never gave up libertarianism, just became less hardcore about it. Shame he died before he could wisen up and renounce it. He's also hardly the "father" of libertarianism, he just revitalized it because he was pissed about the Great Society.

If you really want to make a libertarian feel stupid, bring up the Miracle of Chile or the '90s in Argentina. Utopia here we come!

It is a shame he died. He would have been a great ally agaisnt neoliberals who are currently the real threat, Because real capitalists aren't agaisnt gov intervention when it favours them.

I don't know about Chile & Argentina in the 90s, could you talk about it? Was it after the Lost Decade and the IMF debacle?

[Drex]

It is a shame he died. He would have been a great ally agaisnt neoliberals who are currently the real threat, Because real capitalists aren't agaisnt gov intervention when it favours them.

I don't know about Chile & Argentina in the 90s, could you talk about it? Was it after the Lost Decade and the IMF debacle?

In Chile in the early 70s, the economy turned so bad that the military pulled a coup. When the dust settled, some libertarians were left in charge of the economy and deregulated/privatized everything, slashed all taxes, etc. you know the story. The result was unemployment growing to 5x the amount before they took over (which was already a financial crisis...) and 2x as many people living in poverty as before. Speculators bought up the state banks, then used the bank money to buy up other ex-state-run operations, then used those as collateral to take out loans to buy even more shit. After about 10 years of this, the whole thing collapsed when the speculators defaulted. The libertarians got the boot, Keynesians put everything back into place, and hey the economy was fine again.

Argentina was a similar but more recent story. In the 90s the government sold off basically all of the private works (including water, electricity, gas, telephone company, airlines...) at a discount to European "investors" and it all went to shit. The people who bought the airline company sold all of its assets, the people who bought the water let the quality decline to undrinkable, the people who bought the gas did such a shit job that it leaked into the water and rendered large chunks of the nation's drinking water non-potable, etc. Most of the profits were shipped to overseas banks while all the people were left impoverished and without food, water to drink, travel, hospitals, etc. The government now is working on reclaiming as much of the shit they sold off as possible since the people who bought the companies didn't abide by the contracts, but the money is long gone and the companies are piled high with debts that the investors ran up while they were in charge. The government is going to have to pay off those debts when it buys back the companies with taxes that their people can't afford to pay.

And yes, the IMF had a big hand in it.

[Kuya]

Ah, thank you drex, i'll look more into that.

[test123]

You are all over the place.
What is causing the rise in food prices? Some say speculattion, others say global warming.
What tranfers wealth upwards? Though some say tax cuts do, i dont agree, but the bailout of banks in a sense amounted as much.
Inflation? It can happen when there is excess money supply or because economic growth is extremely high. You can have the instance where is high money supply but slow growth which is called stagFlation. But we dont have any of these problems.

The cause of rising food prices is that the money supply is expanded without there being an equal increase in goods and services (inflation).

The fractional reserve banking system and the "injection of money" during bad times is a mechanism for transfering wealth to bankers, speculators and corporate owners. Basically financial institutions gets free money and is able to loan this out 9 times over. Essentially giving bankers a 20-45% return on every fiat dollar printed by the FED which was created out of thin air the day before.

Inflation is a hidden tax on the people, and taxes without representation (your tax going back to YOUR community) is theft.

http://theczech.files.wordpress.com/...oductivity.gif
http://tradewatch.org.au/blog/wp-con...ages-small.jpg

[solanis]

lol just wow

look what you've done kuya, look what you've done

[Dalek]

Have fun in your heavily taxed society with no freedoms.

Are you an idiot? I bet you he has an easier time getting an education, getting medical treatment, and having a decent standard of living than you do. Who's really more free? What does freedom really mean to you? If it's your freedom to amass as much money as you like, then fine. But don't pretend that your version of freedom is the only one. Some people value the freedom to get an education, to be free to healthy so they can have a quality of life for them and their family, and to be free not to slave for a corporate master who flies around in private jets and eat lobster while they work 60 hours a week to avoid sleeping in the street. Fuck your version of freedom. Just sayin'.

Well thought out and reasoned OP Kuya. If only we all took the time to really examine our beliefs.