BG Auto: Lancer Evolution vs WRX STi

[*Shinzon*]

They will not let you test drive. Unless it's used. And most don't carry them in the dealers so you have to order them. Based off that, STi.

Production was severly limited by the quake, but certain dealers stock piled, especially used models. Just have to look in the right places. Anyone that has new models in stock will have used ones.

[Dantrag]

Production was severly limited by the quake, but certain dealers stock piled, especially used models. Just have to look in the right places. Anyone that has new models in stock will have used ones.

From both dealers I've been to one in Charlotte and one in Raleigh, both stated that since production is so low(this is prequake) that they actually have to order them individually 9/10 times. I've been to Subaru dealers for a while now. And after about '07 they seemed to stop keeping them on the lots as much.

Again, used is a whole nother beast.

[Amastacia]

Shinzon is right on this one.

Unless you plan to
-Track
-AutoX
-Heavily mod

There is virtually no reason to buy either an EvoX or an STI. They are both great cars, but there are cheaper options that are just as much fun to drive on the road, but cost $10k less. The guts under the hood are fantastic starting platforms for heavy modification, and they are much better than the lesser options if you're seriously interested in track time. Of course, there are also better options for the same money if track time is your main focus (e.g. used Lotus).

I've drooled over an STI for years, but now that I'm actually able to afford one, I just can't justify it.

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Mazdaspeed 3, because I don't plan on modding my car, I can get a much better price on one than a WRX (thanks to S-Plan pricing) and it has many more nice features than the WRX at the same price.

If the rally heritage is a serious factor in why you're buying the car, consider the WRX. The WRC cars are not particularly similar to either the WRX or the STI, but the WRX offers about 90% of what the STI does, but for less than 90% the price. If you don't plan on going past basic bolt ons + tune, and don't plan on participating in motorsports, the WRX is all the car you will ever need.

If what you're looking for is a hell of a good time in a street legal car with a warranty, bang for the buck heavily favors the Mazdaspeed 3. It's not AWD, it's not quite as good on a track as a WRX or Evo, but on the roads, it'll hang with, if not outright embarrass, most anything else in the price range, and even many more expensive cars. It mods alright, though the aftermarket is more limited (plus, a ton of extra power is just a recipe for more torque steer).

The Evo is a great car, mods well, and is a fiend on the track. On the road, though, you'll never be able to drive it fast enough to really have that much fun (it's too competent), and you'd never really notice $10k difference between it and something like a Speed3 or WRX. If you can justify $10k for looks, heritage, and track speed, go right ahead and pull the trigger.

Keep in mind, though, that the Evo has a couple of drawbacks to go with its world beating performance. Lack of trunk space. Chintzy interior. Harsh ride. It doesn't really make many compromises for livability, and that can lead to sacrifices a lot of people aren't willing to make in a daily driver.

[*Shinzon*]

From both dealers I've been to one in Charlotte and one in Raleigh, both stated that since production is so low(this is prequake) that they actually have to order them individually 9/10 times. I've been to Subaru dealers for a while now. And after about '07 they seemed to stop keeping them on the lots as much.

Again, used is a whole nother beast.

That's interesting. I know there's a dealer here out in NY, I can't remember the damn name though, that specializes in these vehicles, both STI/WRX and Evo's. They actually go out and sometimes buy the used models from other dealers, fix them up, and try to resell them for a profit. If I can remember the name I'll post it here but I can't honestly remember.

[bechyni]

I just bought a 2011 Evo and test drove both an STI and my car. The Sti felt heavier to me and a little more sluggish then the EVO did. In a rally test the Sti finished .01 second behind the EVO so their pretty much the same car in that aspect. It all just depends on how you feel when you get in the driver's seat and drive them around.

If you want any more specs about how the EVO's handles/turbo builds up/what RPM that MIVECH kicks in just let me know.

[Plow]

Well, if I was clearly interested in purchasing the car, I'd go for a test drive of course. I wouldn't purchase a car without driving it first to be sure. However, I was doubtful they'd let me test drive a car, and then walk away from it, particularly since my manual skills are not up to snuff.

I know how to drive manual, I've been taught and practiced a few times, I don't grind gears, but I do have rough starts from a stop still. Part of this (possibly eventual) purchase would be to get better at it.



I've given thought about V8 RWD cars. I feel like I'd be more likely to wrap myself around a tree though with something like that. Could be wrong though; I might be just as likely (or maybe even more) with a Japanese AWD econobox.

The reality is it hardly matters what kind you get, the only if to when you wrap yourself around a tree is if you stop driving like you're on a track when you're not before it happens.

As to your dilemma...

wait a year and get one of these for 40k from a dealer that hasn't been able to sell it:

http://www.saleen.com/vehicles/S302/

425 hp, 400lb/ft, and that's barely any of the actual modifications they do. It's all about the handling, and it's ridiculous.

[*Shinzon*]

Also @ op, if this purchase doesn't need to be rushed and can wait, what you can also check out is the Golf R when it starts being delivered late this year/early next. AWD and has much more superior interior comfort and quality. It is going to command a nearly 30k price tag but because it's german made it's going to offer a much more unique experience than either of the japanese cars can. Also as a side note if you don't live in a cold weather state you can check out the Ford Focus ST when it hits dealers around the same time as the golf r, and the mazda speed 3. I don't like the GTI too much because I think it's under powered for the class.

[Amastacia]

Also @ op, if this purchase doesn't need to be rushed and can wait, what you can also check out is the Golf R when it starts being delivered late this year/early next. AWD and has much more superior interior comfort and quality. It is going to command a nearly 30k price tag but because it's german made it's going to offer a much more unique experience than either of the japanese cars can. Also as a side note if you don't live in a cold weather state you can check out the Ford Focus ST when it hits dealers around the same time as the golf r, and the mazda speed 3. I don't like the GTI too much because I think it's under powered for the class.

If current VWs, BMWs, MBs, and Audis are anything to go by, there certainly will be a unique experience owning it.

Namely dealing with everything that breaks within the first 20k miles out of warranty. And the insane cost of parts to fix those things. And otherwise dealing with the Germanic tendency to overengineer everything, which leads to more expensive breaks.

[*Shinzon*]

If current VWs, BMWs, MBs, and Audis are anything to go by, there certainly will be a unique experience owning it.

Namely dealing with everything that breaks within the first 20k miles out of warranty. And the insane cost of parts to fix those things. And otherwise dealing with the Germanic tendency to overengineer everything, which leads to more expensive breaks.

People are spread realllly wide on the issue really. There's such a big cult following for the VW gti that parts and support are easy to find and it's really easy to mod to make yours unique. With that said the biggest knock against owning a VW gti/golf model is electrical gremlins. For whatever reason some VWs just end up cursed with little things here and there in their electrical systems that never get fixed completely. With that said though, VW has spent something like 5 billion this year across the world to heavily revamp their customer support because they're out to become the #1 car maker in the world in terms of sales, which is only going to happen if they can keep current customers happy and change the stigma about owning something german. VW isn't a premium brand and while repairs are going to more expensive than something japanese, the quality of materials and on road experience is going to be much more precise and rewarding and yet it wont be as expensive as owning say an A3 or BMW 1 series. It is absolutely a car that should be considered in this price range and niche though.

[Shagoa]

As an owner of a 400HP+ EVO MR, I can say that this car is great and has never let me down. My friend had a tune STI and it was just as awesome.

Pro tip:
Buy the one you think looks better or costs less because both cars can do the same thing, and both can be tuned to have fun with them. The real performance differences in the car can be brought out with a seasoned racing driver, but the average driver isn't going to be able to push the cars to the limit enough to find that fine line between the two.

One thing I've noticed with the STI is that if you don't install equal length headers with an aftermarket exhaust it can get loud inside the car while driving down the freeway. Gets annoying fast.

If you're not dead set, as other posters have mentioned there are other options. Soon, Toyota/Subaru will release the new version of the AE86, called the FT-86. Could be a great option as well.

[jmc]

Actually, you might not be able to test drive a WRX STi, depending on where you live.

I would like to trade in my 2009 WRX, for a 2011 STi.... the only problem is, no dealers around here have them in stock to test drive. Very hard to get a hold of one right now, and last i heard there was a waiting list for them at the 3 dealerships near me.

Unless of course I bought one, then they could get it from out of state..... but I am not buying one, until I drive one.

[Plow]

Also @ op, if this purchase doesn't need to be rushed and can wait, what you can also check out is the Golf R when it starts being delivered late this year/early next. AWD and has much more superior interior comfort and quality. It is going to command a nearly 30k price tag but because it's german made it's going to offer a much more unique experience than either of the japanese cars can. Also as a side note if you don't live in a cold weather state you can check out the Ford Focus ST when it hits dealers around the same time as the golf r, and the mazda speed 3. I don't like the GTI too much because I think it's under powered for the class.

I really, really hate to say it, but yeah I have to agree, the Golf R is sick.

[jmc]

Also, I know the markets are different..... but the $27,000-$30,000 price tag for a WRX is from the premium models isnt it?

Unless they really went up in price since I bought my 2009 WRX..... I paid $23,500 for mine when they first came out.

[*Shinzon*]

Also, I know the markets are different..... but the $27,000-$30,000 price tag for a WRX is from the premium models isnt it?

Unless they really went up in price since I bought my 2009 WRX..... I paid $23,500 for mine when they first came out.

I believe they added what is now called a "limited" trim model that has leather padded seats and some minor upgrades to the dash sound/gps system. But yeah a base model wrx is around 25k-26k new.

[Militant]

Whoever said they wont let you test drive is very confused/mislead. I sold cars for several years before becoming a mechanic, and if someone is looking to buy a car, god damnit you TRY and get them to drive it. Of course, if an 18 year old kid walks with his buddies and wants to drive the fastest car you have, you politely inform him that this is not Six Flags and that if he wants a thrill he should go there, but if here is serious about buying, to prove it. Of course if someone a little older walks in, and appears serious about purchasing a car, you are going to drive it. I don't know about you, but I won't buy a $100 pair of sneakers without trying them on, you think people buy $40,000 worth of metal without driving it?

[Dantrag]

FT-86...

Thread closed.

[Amastacia]

Also, I know the markets are different..... but the $27,000-$30,000 price tag for a WRX is from the premium models isnt it?

Unless they really went up in price since I bought my 2009 WRX..... I paid $23,500 for mine when they first came out.

Yeah, base price is still $25k and change, went up a couple hundred when the WRX picked up the widebody in 2011.

Kills me a little, because $25k and change buys the MS3 with tech package, so you're getting bluetooth, "premium" Bose audio (if such a thing is possible), keyless start, HID lowbeams, nav, rain sensing wipers, etc. Whole bunch of shit you either can't get on a WRX, or have to pony up nearly $30k to get.

I know the motors are more expensive to make, and the AWD system isn't free, but it's a bit of a shame how lame the standard equip on Subarus are these days. They're built like tanks... they'll run pretty much forever (except the turbo might go boom, but that shit happens), and they're about as safe as cars their size come in a crash, but the price for that reliability and safety is a comparatively spartan interior.

[*Shinzon*]

Yeah, base price is still $25k and change, went up a couple hundred when the WRX picked up the widebody in 2011.

Kills me a little, because $25k and change buys the MS3 with tech package, so you're getting bluetooth, "premium" Bose audio (if such a thing is possible), keyless start, HID lowbeams, nav, rain sensing wipers, etc. Whole bunch of shit you either can't get on a WRX, or have to pony up nearly $30k to get.

I know the motors are more expensive to make, and the AWD system isn't free, but it's a bit of a shame how lame the standard equip on Subarus are these days. They're built like tanks... they'll run pretty much forever (except the turbo might go boom, but that shit happens), and they're about as safe as cars their size come in a crash, but the price for that reliability and safety is a comparatively spartan interior.

I missed it I think, but do you own a current gen MS3? I've always liked the the car, even the design, but that red interior is god awful but for the price its hard to beat. Though I like awd for nyc. Last year especially was a perfect example of why all our family cars have it lol.

[Amastacia]

I missed it I think, but do you own a current gen MS3? I've always liked the the car, even the design, but that red interior is god awful but for the price its hard to beat. Though I like awd for nyc. Last year especially was a perfect example of why all our family cars have it lol.

Buying one, assuming the dealer I want to do business with can source one from somewhere in the district. They sold their last 2011 last week.

I've been struggling with this a bit, I'm a snowboarder and really want AWD. But I get S-Plan pricing on the Mazda, and with 0% financing, it's a hard combination to beat. The opportunity cost for the WRX is just too much higher. A good set of snows mitigates much of the advantage of AWD, as does a smart traction control system and some driver skill. I'd still prefer to have it, but with how good Blizzaks are, it's not a must-have.

I hate the grin, and the red accents on the interior are hella tacky, but the build quality is great, it's about as good as stock hot hatches come (the WRX is a better mod platform, though). You get a whole ton of really nice features even without the tech package, and it is incredibly good for putting a grin on one's face.

Edit: It might not launch like AWD, but I could care less about that. It's sitting on such heaping helpings of midrange torque that you can put your foot down from a roll and it will go like a scalded rat. For back road shenanigans, that's what you need. A peaky NA engine is a lot of fun (like my buddy's 2L S2000), but having a ton of grunt anywhere, any time is too.

[*Shinzon*]

Buying one, assuming the dealer I want to do business with can source one from somewhere in the district. They sold their last 2011 last week.

I've been struggling with this a bit, I'm a snowboarder and really want AWD. But I get S-Plan pricing on the Mazda, and with 0% financing, it's a hard combination to beat. The opportunity cost for the WRX is just too much higher. A good set of snows mitigates much of the advantage of AWD, as does a smart traction control system and some driver skill. I'd still prefer to have it, but with how good Blizzaks are, it's not a must-have.

I hate the grin, and the red accents on the interior are hella tacky, but the build quality is great, it's about as good as stock hot hatches come (the WRX is a better mod platform, though). You get a whole ton of really nice features even without the tech package, and it is incredibly good for putting a grin on one's face.

For most driving yea, but if you're gonna be pulling yourself out of snow mounds left by retarded plow drivers i dunno. The biggest advantage is not getting stuck pretty much by anything. We end up doing a lot of reverse pulling out of parking spots around winter time and so having the power in the rear makes a substantial difference. If I hadn't had some of these experiences I'd probably jump all over a speed 3. I mean you can find them for just around 20k if you look hard enough.