Changes to Battle System (8/25/2011)

[miokomioko]

They just need to make an adjustment that makes it so if someone outside the initiating party drags it to the edge of its territory, the claim isn't lost.

Otherwise, I think all this stuff sounds fine. However, this definitely opens a massive door for power-leveling... which they seem to have been avoiding as much as they could in the past.

[Skinwalker]

Imo they should make that you can choose If someone is able to help you or not. Just like call for help in XI but just with exp (SP) at the end ^^

[Grey Jorildyn]

what was wrong with x person claims mob with initiating attack and nobody else can touch it after.

I feel like you answered your own question.

[Gulkeeva]

First thing that came to mind about claiming system was...

Back in FFXI days on a niddhog pull, someone heals the main tank, does some ability spam for massive hate.. and runs it around killing people. But instead of healing the tank, they'd poke the mob, use every job ability possible for obscene threat and run somewhere...

[Cichy]

As long as they dont make retarded spawn conditions like Nid though we should be fine. I much rather see some Garlean attacks where everyone can participate in defense and get something.

[Grey Jorildyn]

As long as they dont make retarded spawn conditions like Nid though we should be fine. I much rather see some Garlean attacks where everyone can participate in defense and get something.

I like the idea of public quests like this where there's "something for everyone". The elitists don't much care for it though. This is one of those instances where I'd like to see the official forums light up in support of something like this, but there's just too many ideas being thrown around for anyone, including the moderators there, to make any kind of sense of.

[Cichy]

I'm willing to see how this unfolds. Almost everyone on Lodestone is XI players who think people will come and rob them of their expz and lootz so they kicking and screaming like a two year old in Wal mart.

[Grey Jorildyn]

We should go steal their expz and lootz so they quit the game and can't post on the official forums anymore.

[Alderaan]

I don't want someone coming up and "helping" me with my mob anyway.

This is part of the mentality that XI helped foster that needs to change. Like Lucavi said, GW2 is doing it right.

If you're ever in a situation that you don't want to see another player, then that's horrible game design.

[Hyan]

I like the idea of public quests like this where there's "something for everyone". The elitists don't much care for it though. This is one of those instances where I'd like to see the official forums light up in support of something like this, but there's just too many ideas being thrown around for anyone, including the moderators there, to make any kind of sense of.

I, too, like the idea of Besieged.

[Lucavi]

I'm willing to see how this unfolds. Almost everyone on Lodestone is XI players who think people will come and rob them of their expz and lootz so they kicking and screaming like a two year old in Wal mart.

This is what XI and nothing else for so many years has done to neckbeards. They're perfectly willing to read about and compliment a cliche, contrite story about teamwork and working together with fellow man to combat evil, but as soon as they make their character, they instantly rush to get into a clique and then hiss and spray venom at any other "fellow man" that is around. It's a combination of a bunch of old cranky men screaming for kids to get off their lawn and a bunch of paranoid-laden conspiracy theorists claiming that the world is against them and only them.

I'm not completely against a "you claim, its all you" system, but I'd like the lore to reflect the actual game design, or vice versa, especially when you have idiots screaming up and down about how "superior" the plot in SE MMOs are compared to other MMOs. If SE is going to design selfish combat systems, then wrap the story and plot aspect around it. As it stands right now, there's a metric ton of hypocrisy both from the developers and the players. The devs are at least trying to change that, some 10 years later, but based on the "official" forums, it seems that they're the only one.

Edit:
And yes, there is a large number of problems with the proposed system. The biggest I can think of is a form of "greifing by proxy", especially considering SE is going to boneheaded route of only allowing he who claims to receive rewards, and even moreso through the silly system where the "better" you fight a mob, the more you get. If I'm 15 levels stronger than a guy and I beat up on his mobs to "help" him, he's going to get shitty XP and rewards. GW2 blows this system out of the water by simply giving everyone their own loot pool. We don't know how deep the rewards tie into actual performance in GW2, but its already a step above by simply removing penalties for helping fellow man. Based on the boss fights they've shown so far, if fellow man isn't helping one another out, that world is right fucked anyway.

I just hope SE doesn't start trying to pull from GW2 months/years after it launches like they've done with WoW and Rift.

[Ropeydonkey]

So we can all beat on most/all mobs... really don't see how this is going to work... surely this massively restricts options for enemy AI and opens up a shit load of new and interesting ways for people to screw each other...

Any mutually exclusive/wiping debuff etc, graving mobs that need to be moved out of dangerous/linking areas etc etc etc

[Grey Jorildyn]

I, too, like the idea of Besieged.

Besieged is pretty low on the totem pole of "public quest".

[Vuitton]

This is what XI and nothing else for so many years has done to neckbeards. They're perfectly willing to read about and compliment a cliche, contrite story about teamwork and working together with fellow man to combat evil, but as soon as they make their character, they instantly rush to get into a clique and then hiss and spray venom at any other "fellow man" that is around. It's a combination of a bunch of old cranky men screaming for kids to get off their lawn and a bunch of paranoid-laden conspiracy theorists claiming that the world is against them and only them.

I'm not completely against a "you claim, its all you" system, but I'd like the lore to reflect the actual game design, or vice versa, especially when you have idiots screaming up and down about how "superior" the plot in SE MMOs are compared to other MMOs. If SE is going to design selfish combat systems, then wrap the story and plot aspect around it. As it stands right now, there's a metric ton of hypocrisy both from the developers and the players. The devs are at least trying to change that, some 10 years later, but based on the "official" forums, it seems that they're the only one.

Edit:
And yes, there is a large number of problems with the proposed system. The biggest I can think of is a form of "greifing by proxy", especially considering SE is going to boneheaded route of only allowing he who claims to receive rewards, and even moreso through the silly system where the "better" you fight a mob, the more you get. If I'm 15 levels stronger than a guy and I beat up on his mobs to "help" him, he's going to get shitty XP and rewards. GW2 blows this system out of the water by simply giving everyone their own loot pool. We don't know how deep the rewards tie into actual performance in GW2, but its already a step above by simply removing penalties for helping fellow man. Based on the boss fights they've shown so far, if fellow man isn't helping one another out, that world is right fucked anyway.

I just hope SE doesn't start trying to pull from GW2 months/years after it launches like they've done with WoW and Rift.

Where does it say that a higher rank person assisting a lower rank person with claim result in lower experience and reward? Also, exactly how is this going to impact anyone other than high ranked players who farm the few R50 open world NMs that drop crafting materials? The majority of the current players are ranking up via leves and behest. The additional content are the instanced dungeons and the FNM leves. This system won't affect any of it.

[Corrderio]

As long as they dont make retarded spawn conditions like Nid though we should be fine. I much rather see some Garlean attacks where everyone can participate in defense and get something.

Pretty sure Yoshida isn't going down the HNM path. So don't need to worry about griefing to that extent. However I do think you're right about the Garlean attacks and they're doing this to prepare for Hamlet defenses.

[Vuitton]

They're also adding "open world dungeons", whatever those are. I just hope that whatever treasure is to be found within them is either leve based or on a fast respawn timer similar to the R30 NMs. The fast respawn negates almost all motivation to grief others, because why bother? It's going to respawn in less than five minutes. Random treasure chests would also bypass griefing.

[miokomioko]

Where does it say that a higher rank person assisting a lower rank person with claim result in lower experience and reward?

Yeah, it doesn't. People are making a huge assumption. If it's true, that's dumb. If it's not true, power-leveling will become incredibly easy.

Rank-5 player pulls and links some mobs > rank-50 player one-shots them all.

[Kurokikaze]

http://images.memegenerator.net/inst...0x/9600260.jpg

[Kaylia]

They're also adding "open world dungeons", whatever those are. I just hope that whatever treasure is to be found within them is either leve based or on a fast respawn timer similar to the R30 NMs. The fast respawn negates almost all motivation to grief others, because why bother? It's going to respawn in less than five minutes. Random treasure chests would also bypass griefing.

Astral candescence area come to mind.

[Lokus]

They could always make it so people with first claim get a different loot pool from anyone that decides to help. In that regards, helpers would at least get something.

Regardless, griefers gonna grief no matter what system is put in place.