Changes to Battle System (8/25/2011)

[miokomioko]

I think it's the paranoia of people who are generally big enough assholes to draw that kind of attention on themselves.

[Cichy]

I just don't understand why everyone is worried about people stealing your mob, or screwing with you or stealing hate and causing wipes.

Have you ever play a game known as Final Fantasy 11?

[Spider-Dan]

High demand? Those 4 NMs are in no way shape or form "high demand" anymore.

...

Mosshorn was an example of an NM on a tether (specifically: an NM whose tether mechanics figured prominently into soloing strategies), not an example of a high-demand mob.

Remember, those were implemented by the old dev team. I'm willing to bet we will never see mobs like that anymore, and they will just get replaced by instanced content more and more.

You'll forgive me if I don't accept "You'll never have to compete with anyone else for a spawn again, for the rest of this game's life!" as a convincing explanation as to why griefing should not be a concern.

[Kurokikaze]

Have you ever play a game known as Final Fantasy 11?

Have you ever played an MMO besides Final Fantasy XI?

As I said before, this system is in virtually every other MMO and it is a non-issue.

Also if you're expecting 24-72 world pop for the best gear in the game... You can go back to playing FFXI because it's not going to happen with this new Dev Team. Thank God.

[Fiddle Sticks]

...

Mosshorn was an example of an NM on a tether (specifically: an NM whose tether mechanics figured prominently into soloing strategies), not an example of a high-demand mob.

Just going off of what you said... "Don't try to solo high-demand mobs with others waiting in line."

You'll forgive me if I don't accept "You'll never have to compete with anyone else for a spawn again, for the rest of this game's life!" as a convincing explanation as to why griefing should not be a concern.

Hmm maybe I don't know what this "Griefing" is, but if World Spawn competition is not your problem, then I really don't understand your concern at all..... I mean, are you really just worried that people will come and screw with your mobs while you're exping or something???........... Please, don't kid yourself buddy, I'm sure people have more important things to do than follow you around and screw with your mobs while you're exping.... This paranoid crap from you players that know nothing more than FFXI is what will hold this game back.

Have you ever play a game known as Final Fantasy 11?

Yeah, I have, and outside of World Spawn NMs, I still don't see the problem. (and It should be known by now, that will not be an issue here) If you are telling me that you had people on your server stalking you and screwing with your exp mobs or something then I don't even know what to say to that.... I didn't realize people were that bored in life and had nothing better to do and were that childish.

[Vuitton]

Exp mobs outside leves dont really live all that long when engaged. Not sure how you can grief when a mob is alive all of 30 seconds or less.

[Spider-Dan]

Yeah, I have, and outside of World Spawn NMs, I still don't see the problem.

So if I understand you correctly, as long as you don't count the uninstanced mobs with special loot pools, mob monopolization should not be an issue. That's obvious to the point of being meaningless.

I find it interesting that you seem to have gotten the idea that the new team is completely against the idea of world spawn NMs, given that they introduced ~4x as many as the original team did.* You seem to be proposing that either a) Yoshida released his own set of 20 world-spawn NMs, but will never do anything like that again, or b) future world-spawn NMs will never have loot that anyone would want to compete over.

*technically, even the first set of NMs was released after the handover to Yoshida, but I'll grant those as Tanaka's vision

[Lucavi]

So if I understand you correctly, as long as you don't count the uninstanced mobs with special loot pools, mob monopolization should not be an issue. That's obvious to the point of being meaningless.

I find it interesting that you seem to have gotten the idea that the new team is completely against the idea of world spawn NMs, given that they introduced ~4x as many as the original team did.* You seem to be proposing that either a) Yoshida released his own set of 20 world-spawn NMs, but will never do anything like that again, or b) future world-spawn NMs will never have loot that anyone would want to compete over.

*technically, even the first set of NMs was released after the handover to Yoshida, but I'll grant those as Tanaka's vision

Has the new guy even said anything about not wanting -any- world spawn HNMs? I don't believe so. I think people are pulling a bit of red herring here.

[Vuitton]

Has the new guy even said anything about not wanting -any- world spawn HNMs? I don't believe so. I think people are pulling a bit of red herring here.

And you're all bitching about a handful of R50 NMs that drop crafting mats and unknown future content. "New guy", as you refer to him, is more than likely aware of these miniscule arguments about leash griefing. Yoshida isn't exactly the type of developer that throws in new systems with disregard with how it will synergize with the rest of the game. In fact, if a new system is going to have an unintended consequence he has already demonstrated to us that he is aware of the problem and that it will temporary until future planned adjustments are implemented. He has done so in several of his last posts concerning the battle system changes and the battle regimens.

Spoiler: show

OH NOES. Someone is trying to leash my R30 NM. Whatever will I do? It only respawns continuously within five minutes of death! (Not taking into account that nobody camps these mobs, that anyone would even bother, that anyone would risk their reputation if they have one, or that anyone has ever tried to grief in XIV at all.) Same goes for those handful of R50 NMs actually. Who is bothering? Nobody.

Spoiler: show

THE SKY IS FALLING.

http://www.freewebs.com/thedisneyclassics/chicken.bmp

[Corrderio]

I could have sworn Yoshida said he was going to lean towards instances in a translation somewhere.

[Cichy]

Have you ever played an MMO besides Final Fantasy XI?

As I said before, this system is in virtually every other MMO and it is a non-issue.

Also if you're expecting 24-72 world pop for the best gear in the game... You can go back to playing FFXI because it's not going to happen with this new Dev Team. Thank God.

I was just answering his question, people on the Lodestone bitch because they think it will lead to FFXI type HNM endgame.
Yoshi stated multiple times that best gear will be instanced in this one.

[Spider-Dan]

Has the new guy even said anything about not wanting -any- world spawn HNMs? I don't believe so.

I don't remember typing an H.

Are we currently operating under the assumption that XIV cannot/will not have an analogue to LL/VE/Mee Deggi/Sozu/etc.? Is it really reasonable to presume that there will never be any high-demand world-spawn NM at any point in the future?

[Vuitton]

I don't remember typing an H.

Are we currently operating under the assumption that XIV cannot/will not have an analogue to LL/VE/Mee Deggi/Sozu/etc.? Is it really reasonable to presume that there will never be any high-demand world-spawn NM at any point in the future?

LL/VE/Mee Deggi are all NMs that provide gear for low to mid levels in XI. XIV currently has (quite a lot of) NMs that provide gear for the mid levels. I don't think anyone knows which dev team was responsible for their planning and implementation, quite possibly Tanaka's team planned and developed them and Yoshida implemented them, or that Yoshida did it all.

If Yoshida's team is responsible only for implementation of NMs, then it might be reasonable to assume that he is not planning on developing high-demand world-spawn NMs. It might even be likely that the mid level NMs he did implement have extremely fast respawn times in order to prevent them from becoming high-demand. (Success!) Would Tanaka have let them respawn so fast, or would he follow his own system in XI with long respawn windows, place holders, and complex pop conditions? Not sure.

If Yoshida's team is responsible for both the development and implementation, then it's possible they will continue to release NMs (I believe he has already stated they will). He has also declared the development of open world dungeons (not instanced), which sound like an obvious place to house these future NMs. Will they be high-demand world-spawn NMs (I consider a non-instanced dungeon NM a world-spawn NM)? Most likely not given the current respawn mechanics of the game's current NMs. Even the R50 open world NMs don't have huge respawn times. Great Buffalo spawns within the same time-frame every in-game day? So that is once an hour. Dodore spawns during dark weather? A very common weather for that region. Then, if it is true that Yoshida said the best gear will come from instanced content, that will further remove "high demand" from open world NMs.

Then, considering the grand companies and their potential rewards, future faction leves (assuming Yoshida implements more FNMs), future R50+ crafted gear, and future instanced dungeons. I think open world NMs are sort of like little side content but not the maindish. If you're wanting complex boss fights that drop bad ass gear, well let's hope the future instanced dungeons become more complex.

I don't see mob/NM griefing ever becoming an issue like it was in XI and these are the reasons I roll my eyes when I read all of these chicken little sky is falling messages here, on the lodestone, and elsewhere. "XIV endgame" is not following the same trajectory that XI's took. They're looking to be completely different.

[Hyan]

Would Tanaka have let them respawn so fast, or would he follow his own system in XI with long respawn windows, place holders, and complex pop conditions? Not sure.

I think they're changing XI NM respawns sometime in the future.

XI was largely instanced post-2006, XIV will be largely instanced. It's not a completely different route, unless you compare it to history long gone.

[Lucavi]

I don't remember typing an H.

Are we currently operating under the assumption that XIV cannot/will not have an analogue to LL/VE/Mee Deggi/Sozu/etc.? Is it really reasonable to presume that there will never be any high-demand world-spawn NM at any point in the future?

I'm certainly not. Of course you want rare mobs out in the field - I loved spending free time in WOTLK trying to find the rare mobs up at the storm peaks and taming them if I was able to. The only thing I'm against is the items that they drop being the best-in-slot for some 30 levels or so, which the player-base will ultimately decree as mandatory to "not being a scrub". Even if you can get them, the sheer amount of time and luck involved should automatically disqualify it from being "mandatory", whether socially-enforced or otherwise.

I think you're aiming your crosshairs at the wrong target, here. The world would be boring if there wasn't anything strong to fight outside of instances. I'd just keep the biggest, baddest items locked away in said instances so that everyone has a fair shot at them, if the creators are going to make such crazy items in the first place. I mean, compare O.Kote to anything around its level. It was absolutely absurd, especially in a game that had such few meaningful stat-increasing equipment in the early levels.

[Spider-Dan]

When Yoshida says that the best gear will be instanced, will that include future gear similar to Eternal Shade? I doubt it.

In any practical sense, Leaping Boots were never the best gear in the game... but they were extremely useful and, therefore, extremely high-demand. If the game's population never grows beyond what it is, then sure, this probably won't be an issue. But if this game had 2004 FFXI's population, Queen Bolete would be a camped mob.

[Lucavi]

Notice I said nothing about leaping boots. Leaping boots do not compare to okote in terms of stat boost. They have have been an extremely in-demand item, but you couldn't rock leaping boots for 80% of the leveling process (which took up a big chunk of the game back in those days, not like today's rush-to-max MMOs) like you could with o.kote. I specifically singled the kote out because of the importance of that item, but I could have also picked out the pcharm. When those kinds of items are dropping off of world NMs and items that at the very least rival them cannot be found anywhere else (far be it from being found in an instance), you have a problem when a shitty claiming system is present.

XIV shouldn't have to worry about this, but it bears repeating. SE should not and cannot make that mistake again.

[Spider-Dan]

Notice I said nothing about leaping boots. Leaping boots do not compare to okote in terms of stat boost. They have have been an extremely in-demand item,[...]

...which is the only criteria: high-demand items.

It doesn't matter if O.Kote is technically better than LL boots/VE pin, or O-bow is technically better than all of the above; at the end of the day, demand is demand. Unless SE pursues a policy of not putting anything that too many people would want on open-world NMs, sooner or later there will be real competition for a spawn.

[Lucavi]

The question is: will they? That's my point: they cannot do it again. They have not thus far, and I hope it continues to remain that way.

[Meko]

I have a question: With Guild Wars 2 coming, who cares? I kid I kid. (or do I)