Changes to Battle System (8/25/2011)

[Grey Jorildyn]

Level 10 items will never be best is slot because gear and stats are scaled. For example: any choker lower than mythril choker's level can never have more than 4 attack. Instead of OP low level gear now we've got all this predictable gear.

Set bonus can I have it? Armor sets can we have it???

[Lucavi]

Set bonuses are always fun, and they help to avoid "clown syndrome".

[CasualPlayer]

@Lucavi: What good does it do for Yoshi to liter the world with NMs that don't drop anything that's worth a fuck? If the best gear comes from instances that's all people will do. The community as you said is going to dictate which gear you need to not be considered scrub and if its all from instances open world mobs will be ignored.

I've always supported the idea that the best gear should come from instances and open world content. Pcharm dropping from that bcnm 40 etc.

Edit: Even better they made the R/Ex version of shit drop from the open world content and left the instanced version sellable to give all you instance only pussies one less thing to cry about.

[Meko]

There is no reason why both instanced and real-time world spawns can't drop the same gear or the same 'item level' of gear. World spawns add a little mystery and flavor to running around not to mention, nothing is more epic than a giant dragon roaming a country side randomly causing chaos. The dynamic mobs that spawn add some LIFE to a game which FF14 has next to none as it currently sits. If they aren't going to add 'rifts' or 'public quests' and such, they need to add something to make the game world feel alive. Other than that, the game world seems almost irrelevant.

[Fiddle Sticks]

@Lucavi: Even better they made the R/Ex version of shit drop from the open world content and left the instanced version sellable to give all you instance only pussies one less thing to cry about.

I love how people that don't like to waste days and days of their life standing there with their thumb up their ass camping NMS, pussies.... You're so awesome and leet because you have patience and like to bore yourself to death camping NMs for days and days! That makes you such a skilled and awesome player!

[Takiwaki]

With the changes to the claim system, all open world nm's shouldn't drop shit but maybe points toward companies for good gear, or a chest that everyone that fought the nm can get something from, also make it so that the NMs spawn under certain conditions, that players need to make happen, cus the entire camping mechanic that has developed is stupid. I am not dumb enough to be paying $15 a month to stand around for 3hrs and read a book (anymore lol)

[Kaiyoko]

Make a wanted poster system or something for the Companies for open world NMs that spawn every 5 or 10 min. Get points towards the company. Change the NM everyday as a daily. With the new claiming system could give kill credit to anyone who gained enimity.

[Niiro]

you couldn't rock leaping boots for 80% of the leveling process

For any job that wasn't MNK/SAM/NIN you were actually. There's no good footwear til at least the late 60s for most of those jobs (even later if were talking the good 'ol days).

Kind of one of the things I like about XIV's gear system, increases may not be dramatic but gear progression happens on a gentle curve not ......10........20..........30..........40........ ..50.........haub

[Lucavi]

@Lucavi: What good does it do for Yoshi to liter the world with NMs that don't drop anything that's worth a fuck? If the best gear comes from instances that's all people will do. The community as you said is going to dictate which gear you need to not be considered scrub and if its all from instances open world mobs will be ignored.

I've always supported the idea that the best gear should come from instances and open world content. Pcharm dropping from that bcnm 40 etc.

Edit: Even better they made the R/Ex version of shit drop from the open world content and left the instanced version sellable to give all you instance only pussies one less thing to cry about.

Damn, you're so hardcore. I'm speechless by both your infallible logic and by your impressive testicular fortitude. I have nothing of value to add.

[Grey Jorildyn]

imo everything should be rare/ex (bind on pickup) or bind on equip. Smaller markets do better.

I'd be OK with SE doing some open world shit if they knew how to implement it properly. 21-24s were just stupid and the way it is now is too giving. Gotta be some balance in there. Even darkhold is too giving. People capped out on drops like two weeks in. I don't think Salvage drop rates are the way to go, but perhaps a token system like einherjar would work out better. Put your time in, pick what you want. Too bad none of that is open world though.

[Lordender]

lol, love it, its not like they can't immerse the player in a storyline in x/y area with a few quests/cutscenes and then follow it up with a "threat is in x/y instance adding a credibility threat to the area". Instances can be hard, they can offer a challenge without having world bosses that are going to be cockblocks, people only want world bosses that drop good loot because they're greedy little griefing fagatards and spent years doing the shit on XI.

If Yoshi-P even wants to go farther they could add mini campaigns to little settlement areas and make the villian talk a little shit then disappear.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Pretty much man. That's been my experience with people who are pro-open world. It's also hard to ignore that FFXI is the only mmo they ever played seriously or for any real length of time. They make terrible arguments for why open world should exist but really they just want it to be as bad as it ever was.

[Hyan]

I'd be OK with SE doing some open world shit if they knew how to implement it properly. 21-24s were just stupid and the way it is now is too giving. Gotta be some balance in there. Even darkhold is too giving. People capped out on drops like two weeks in. I don't think Salvage drop rates are the way to go, but perhaps a token system like einherjar would work out better. Put your time in, pick what you want. Too bad none of that is open world though.

It's casual to the dot. Aside from trying to cater to harrrrdcore, why not have it this way?

It's not the rare/ex stuff that will make us grind our eyes out anyway. Having 5 materias on a HQ shiny gold armor will.

[Grey Jorildyn]

I don't feel like grinding to extend the life of content is a good plan for xiv right now. Accessorizing as grindy isn't really my cup of tea either, but I'll play until I get fed up either way. A big reason people might accept grindy contet right now is so there's something to do. Battered housewives aside, of course.

[Elrina]

Pretty much man. That's been my experience with people who are pro-open world. It's also hard to ignore that FFXI is the only mmo they ever played seriously or for any real length of time. They make terrible arguments for why open world should exist but really they just want it to be as bad as it ever was.

Why play MMOs at all then? Why not go completely hub-based? Where do you draw the line, and why is it that people who want open world content are automatically either greedy fags, or have no experience with "better MMOs than FFXI" and are stuck wanting bad content?

Don't get me wrong, I don't really post in the XIV section much anymore because my active interest has waned and hasn't really returned thus far (although I'm hoping it will somewhere between chocobos and a job system). If that doesn't qualify me to post an opinion on the matter, feel free to ignore the rest of this, but it's late and I'm bored and never liked blanket statements that make out like instances or open world either are the "only proper way" to go about content.

What's the point in an MMORPG that isn't an open persistent world? What's the point in an open persistent world in which nothing happens? I realize there are problems, and difficulties, with open world content. I realize that it's hard to balance fairly, hard to reward fairly, while still keeping an element of chance and consistent progression at the same time for an entire server at once. But, at least to me, I believe not having it is doing a disservice to said game world, and don't think instancing everything is the answer. Instances have obvious good points, such as allowing for easier balancing and everyone to experience certain content equally and fairly. But it also removes the happening from the active game world inside of an instance.

You are still on "Eorzea", or "Azeroth", or whatever game world your instance belongs to, but it is no longer part of the persistent game world. It's happening outside of that, in it's own little space/time bubble set apart, and reminds you every time that you're inside of a video game. I grant you that if it isn't done properly that it has the potential to do more harm to the game (which, in the end, is what it is) than good. But personally, I don't believe I have to be a greedy fag, or "stuck in an FFXI mindset" (I hated the concept of camping on HNMs and ridiculously high desire NMs like Argus), to desire noteworthy content happening in the persistent game world itself, not in an instance that is set apart. Instances are good, and have their place, but without anything noteworthy going on in the world itself, to me at least, it makes that game world feel stale.

I remember this discussion having been had before (probably like a year ago, and I'm sure the discussion has been had since between other people), and seem to recall you conceding that the concept of open world content isn't inherently bad, just difficult and unlikely to be utilized well in XIV (and that's possible, although not definitive, I have no idea what Yoshida will ultimately be capable of in the long term). But you're making a blanket statement here, or as good as, that open world content is pretty much just a completely bad idea in an MMO. I don't really mean to start a discussion or anything, and if you want to reply you can do it here or just PM it if you want, I don't really care, I guess. Or not bother, I mainly just wanted to cut in and say that I disagreed, if you don't want to reply that's fine too.

[Kurokikaze]

Fuck open world 24-72 hour spawns.

[Elcura]

Open World Stuff

I'm with you for the most part. Not saying that open world NMs are the way to go, but what's the point of an open world where nothing happens? As it stands, all it does it delay the time it takes to get from point A to B in order to do C. I play MMOs with hubs and I know there's a lot of the world I'm missing, but on the flip side I can do things faster. For now, that's better than a world that has nothing going on in it.

[Hyan]

Anything outside hubs feels forced to me nowadays.

"We need to build this open world, because we're making an MMO!"

"We need to make players get 50-80 levels before endgame (but treat the whole thing as a mindless 2 week tutorial at best) because we're making an MMO!"

"We'll focus our efforts on instanced content in endgame because we can introduce better gameplay that way! But the open world tutorial still limits what we can possibly do."

If it's all about the gameplay and efficiency, why make us go through all the shit if you'll end up ignoring it anyway?

Of course some people are going to ridicule me if I said that the devs focus too much on the gameplay nowadays, but to be fucking honest with you the gameplay is not the only nor primary reason I play MMO's in the first place, and the time it takes to get to the good stuff makes sure that I'll find my decent gameplay experiences (with better visuals) elsewhere in the future. From games that don't bother with open world, for example. I guess they are classified as MMO's, but not in my book.

[Thiefami]

i'm sure it will not be so onesided. He said the majority of gear, not ALL. I have enough tampons to go around. Let us all calm down.

[Jamison]

Open world stuff could (should) easily be group/server events that aren't restricted to simply a race to claim and kill.