Test Server Findings

[Foldypaws]

Given as there seems to be a discussion of pDIF going on right now, can someone explain to me how the crit ones can be accurate?

Ratio caps at 2.25 for 2 handers. It's trivial to show for 2 handers at least that you can get your attack up high enough such that all of your crits are @ 3.0 pDIF.

But the formula for min crit pDIF on BG wiki is

Crit pDIF Min:

Minimum Crit pDIF = 1.007 × cRatio + 0.51

If you plug in 2.25 for that, you only get 2.77575.

So why do I never see any 2.8 pDIF crits on level 0 mobs?

[Prothescar]

Given as there seems to be a discussion of pDIF going on right now, can someone explain to me how the crit ones can be accurate?

Ratio caps at 2.25 for 2 handers. It's trivial to show for 2 handers at least that you can get your attack up high enough such that all of your crits are @ 3.0 pDIF.

But the formula for min crit pDIF on BG wiki is

Crit pDIF Min:

Minimum Crit pDIF = 1.007 × cRatio + 0.51

If you plug in 2.25 for that, you only get 2.77575.

So why do I never see any 2.8 pDIF crits on level 0 mobs?

This might help

[Yukari]

So currently, what's the consensus on the new WSs? It doesn't look very good for almost all of them.

[scaevola]

So currently, what's the consensus on the new WSs? It doesn't look very good for almost all of them.

I would submit that if they are for the most part weaker than Emp/Relic WSes but stronger than everything else, this is actually the ideal situation for everyone.

[Prothescar]

Would say anything besides Great Katana is situational at best, Gun and Archery also getting off rather well.

[Yukari]

Which WSs were the ones with attack penalties? I know polearm had some weird issues about the low initial hit fTP being copied over onto the additional hits.

[Motenten]

Given as there seems to be a discussion of pDIF going on right now, can someone explain to me how the crit ones can be accurate?

Ratio caps at 2.25 for 2 handers. It's trivial to show for 2 handers at least that you can get your attack up high enough such that all of your crits are @ 3.0 pDIF.

But the formula for min crit pDIF on BG wiki is

Crit pDIF Min:

Minimum Crit pDIF = 1.007 × cRatio + 0.51

If you plug in 2.25 for that, you only get 2.77575.

So why do I never see any 2.8 pDIF crits on level 0 mobs?

Min crit pDif is approximately: cRatio * (1 + 30/1024) + 589/1024

For capped cRatio on a 2-handed weapon, using integer math:

2.25 = 2304/1024
1 + 30/1024 = 1054/1024

2304 * 1054/1024 = 2371

2371 + 589 = 2960

2960/1024 = 2.890625

[Tardevil]

Would say anything besides Great Katana is situational at best, Gun and Archery also getting off rather well.

It seemed that Dagger and Club were also looking pretty good, no?

[TummieGaruda]

If Stardivers 0.75 fTp does indeed carry over through the other 3 hits, and due to the fact that it is 100% (85% after alpha) STR, would a belt/gorget combo help it enough to be pretty much on par with a 4/4 crit Drakesbane?

[scaevola]

If Stardivers 0.75 fTp does indeed carry over through the other 3 hits, and due to the fact that it is 100% (85% after alpha) STR, would a belt/gorget combo help it enough to be pretty much on par with a 4/4 crit Drakesbane?

Moreover, is there a reason I didn't see why everyone's saying Stardiver's mediocre but not mentioning any testing with a TP Bonus Polearm and Moonshade?

[Martel]

If I have to use a TP bonus polearm to make good use of Stardiver, then I'd rather just not use it. <,<;

[Byrthnoth]

If Stardivers 0.75 fTp does indeed carry over through the other 3 hits, and due to the fact that it is 100% (85% after alpha) STR, would a belt/gorget combo help it enough to be pretty much on par with a 4/4 crit Drakesbane?

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Stardiver

SUPR STRONG FTP MOD. 300% + Gorgets is 4.55 fTP with 100% STR mod without crits, while Drakes is 4 fTP with 50% STR mod and crits. It's a poorly conceived WS, and SE put the final coffin nail in with a Gravitation property.

[Septimus]

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Stardiver

SUPR STRONG FTP MOD. 300% + Gorgets is 4.55 fTP with 100% STR mod without crits, while Drakes is 4 fTP with 50% STR mod and crits. It's a poorly conceived WS, and SE put the final coffin nail in with a Gravitation property.

Wait wait wait... Do you mean that Square put more effort into making something pretty than making something that players would want to use? The hell you say!

[Yukari]

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Stardiver

SUPR STRONG FTP MOD. 300% + Gorgets is 4.55 fTP with 100% STR mod without crits, while Drakes is 4 fTP with 50% STR mod and crits. It's a poorly conceived WS, and SE put the final coffin nail in with a Gravitation property.

Thats... really disheartening to hear. Those fTP mods look really odd though, if the WS acted like every other one and had 1 fTP on additional hits...

[scaevola]

If I have to use a TP bonus polearm to make good use of Stardiver, then I'd rather just not use it. <,<;

This is a weird opinion to me. WSes with damage-based TP variables have always done insanely well with TP Bonus weapons; if Stardiver's competitive with the current best DRG WS without one, why would you not want to use it?

EDIT: nevermind; looked at the wiki page. But Stingray/Moonshade's still, what, a 17ish% damage increase?

[Karbuncle]

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Stardiver

SUPR STRONG FTP MOD. 300% + Gorgets is 4.55 fTP with 100% STR mod without crits, while Drakes is 4 fTP with 50% STR mod and crits. It's a poorly conceived WS, and SE put the final coffin nail in with a Gravitation property.

So conclusion is......

.dat swap if you ever wanna see the animation :D?

[SephYuyX]

Any word on whats needed to upgrade to Staff +4?

[Martel]

This is a weird opinion to me. WSes with damage-based TP variables have always done insanely well with TP Bonus weapons; if Stardiver's competitive with the current best DRG WS without one, why would you not want to use it?

Like, if you were a SAM at 75, would you have said "Thank God, I can finally ditch Hagun!" when Rana came out? I mean, if you don't want to bother making a TP Boners Polearm I understand but I was to understand Polearm options other than Ryunohige were generally pretty lame so it's not like you'd be giving up much.

In the case of SAM, those DMG varies by TP WS also had HUGE pDIF mods. Like Gekko and it's +100% mod.

I use the 95 magian OAT polearm. To top Drakes spam with a fair DMG OAT weapon, TP bonus enhanced stardiver would have to be ridiculous. Which it's not.

Why use a subpar polearm and lower my overall dmg output just to make a different ws useful?

[VZX01]

Would say anything besides Great Katana is situational at best, Gun and Archery also getting off rather well.

I'd reserve saying Apex Arrow as the top one, because we don't know how much defense ignored at 100 TP yet. It needs at least 25% defense ignored at 100TP if it wants to beat non-crit 3-hit Jishnu.

Personally, I'd vote for Realmrazer (you practically need no double attack gear at all when DWing), Shoha (if the atk bonus is true), and last stand (among any other ranged WS)

[Atoreis]

I'd reserve saying Apex Arrow as the top one, because we don't know how much defense ignored at 100 TP yet. It needs at least 25% defense ignored at 100TP if it wants to beat non-crit 3-hit Jishnu.

Personally, I'd vote for Realmrazer (you practically need no double attack gear at all when DWing), Shoha (if the atk bonus is true), and last stand (among any other ranged WS)

Ymmm I tho dagger is nice too.
Gaxe is actually best mighty strike WS and make Light with Ukko.