Test Server Findings

**Mojo** · 2011-12-23 21:38

Going from 40% base crit to 15% base crit is minor?

**Prothescar** · 2011-12-23 21:42

35%*

What everyone seems to want is something that can one shot the world, making easy mode into easy mode, etc., a loss of an average of 300~500 damage on your Ukko's Fury isn't killing your job, and it is a minor devalue to your weapon.

**Mojo** · 2011-12-23 21:46

Honestly, seems like you're suffering from some kind of WAR dick envy and are contented to see them nerfed. If you think it's so insignificant, then what's the point of the patch? To piss people off? They ought to be focusing on other aspects of the game, not just 'balancing' the shit out of stuff that players enjoy.

**dasva** · 2011-12-23 21:47

Perhaps my math is wrong but I thought 200k hp was more than 3k dmg. Because that's what some of the world has and that's if I'm not mistaken the dmg they want to keep on that content

Alarial · 2011-12-23 21:48

Originally Posted by Prothescar

Except, until they remove Ukko's Fury and/or Ukonvasara from the game, they didn't lose anything. What about my Masamune, did I lose that because they released Tachi: Shoha which shits all over Fudo? Did I lose my Almace the first time a Warrior did an 6k Ukko's Fury compared to my 1.5k Chant du Cygne?

What about relics? I guarantee relic holders at the time that Abyssea came out put in far more time and effort for their weapons compared to anyone who has ever made an Empyrean.

I worked for both of these weapons, and they've been shit or passable in comparison to Ukonvasara from the start. Buffing them, while an option, would create more problems than it's worth. You need to understand that this is Square-Enix; they don't just buff for free. Unless you're a Samurai.

Saying I still have a nice new Porsche and shouldn't complain if you swap out the engine for an old mustang, is a bit disingenuous.

You can't argue that people:

1. Shouldn't complain about a nerf to something that's been live on the servers for a year(+) now and has influenced what they take time to upgrade.

and then simultaneously say

2. That SE is dumb/ignorant/lazy for not upgrading other jobs and balancing the metric that way.

Either this is a dumb move by SE and it's not in the best interest of the player base (best interest being better improvements to other jobs), or this is legitimate balance.

I'd wager it's the first and those upset are legitimately upset.

Regardless, the point is that the people QQing over the people QQing are just as annoying to listen to and are not any more valid in their points.

Have everyone suggest/throw a fit to SE if they want it changed. SE can ignore people if they want. Some will quit, others will bite their tongues and tough it out. From what I've seen it won't take long before people are bored of the new VW and tired of spamming daily dynamis solo everyday.

Most people are likely to drift mostly away into lower playtime until Nyzle v2 hits, but accounts will remain open and that's all SE cares about. The only thing that will kill a lot of player's desire to continue is how they handle lvl 99 relic/mythic/empy trials.

**Nightfyre** · 2011-12-23 21:48

Originally Posted by Prothescar

35%*

What everyone seems to want is something that can one shot the world, making easy mode into easy mode, etc., a loss of an average of 300~500 damage on your Ukko's Fury isn't killing your job, and it is a minor devalue to your weapon.

Not sure if you're arguing for the sake of arguing, really that confused about what we want, or just trolling, but no.

Overwhelm doesn't work on Raiden Thrust either so I'm done trying to test the domaru's effect.

**ronin sparthos** · 2011-12-23 21:48

The main reason people are pissed is because SE squeezes out a shitty patch then double-downs it with nerfs under the flag of balance. It's like they're intentionally trying to fuck with people rather than address the issues people having legitimate issues with. WAR/MNK needed to be tweaked and that's fine but where is the SAM balancer? Where is the perk designed to deflect the nerfs? New sources of Heavy Metal? Where is SE calming fears of 100 ADLs for a Relic 99? These are the things lacking and so you get blind rage when they drop bombs like this.

SE QQs so hard about Abyssea's difficulty but has effectively created a system in Voidwatch where you hide behind invincibility drinks, cap lights in one proc (that's fgiven to you no less), get constant logs/ores, can't consistently work towards gear and deal with constant dooms/hate resets or straight death attacks.

**dasva** · 2011-12-23 21:49

Originally Posted by Prothescar

Except, until they remove Ukko's Fury and/or Ukonvasara from the game, they didn't lose anything. What about my Masamune, did I lose that because they released Tachi: Shoha which shits all over Fudo? Did I lose my Almace the first time a Warrior did an 6k Ukko's Fury compared to my 1.5k Chant du Cygne?

Comparing a buff to a nerf is kinda silly

**Cream Soda** · 2011-12-23 21:51

Apples to oranges. You're comparing situations where things are buffed, improved, or better things come out to nerfing other things.

Everyone already said they'd be fine if they brought other shit up to par.

**Prothescar** · 2011-12-23 22:15

Using an average Ukko's Fury set with +8% Crit rate @ 100TP, assuming just under capped attack and without accounting for multiattack procs or job abilities:

35% Crit Rate Ukko's Fury
D: 144
fSTR: 24
WSC: 100
fTP: 3
Average pDIF: 2.44094

Average Damage: 2011

Spoiler: show

15% Crit Rate Ukko's Fury
D: 144
fSTR: 24
WSC: 100
fTP: 3
Average pDIF: 2.22314

Average Damage: 1831

Spoiler: show

Average 180 damage difference.

Originally Posted by Alarial

Stuff

My main issue is with the people blowing it out of proportion and assuming that the nerf means death for their Ukon. Ukko's Fury is not weaker than Raging Rush. Ukonvasara is still the strongest Empyrean weapon. Losing 20% crit rate on your weaponskill did not kill your job, and is in the grand scheme of things a minor difference.

**Nightmarelord** · 2011-12-23 22:27

uh oh he brought out the maths!

**Prothescar** · 2011-12-23 22:30

Pointless arguing any further, I'm not going to sway the thoughts of the angry masses. You may continue believing that this nerf has made your Ukonvasaras significantly less useful since you put in all of that time to make them.

**dasva** · 2011-12-23 22:30

Originally Posted by Prothescar

Using an average Ukko's Fury set with +8% Crit rate @ 100TP, assuming just under capped attack and without accounting for multiattack procs or job abilities:

35% Crit Rate Ukko's Fury
D: 144
fSTR: 24
WSC: 100
fTP: 3
Average pDIF: 2.44094

Average Damage: 2011

Spoiler: show

15% Crit Rate Ukko's Fury
D: 144
fSTR: 24
WSC: 100
fTP: 3
Average pDIF: 2.22314

Average Damage: 1831

Spoiler: show

Average 180 damage difference.

My main issue is with the people blowing it out of proportion and assuming that the nerf means death for their Ukon. Ukko's Fury is not weaker than Raging Rush. Ukonvasara is still the strongest Empyrean weapon. Losing 20% crit rate on your weaponskill did not kill your job, and is in the grand scheme of things a minor difference.

Your math is kinda hard to follow but it looks like you've made some mistakes. Like I'm assuming that 1.21 is +crit dmg and that you were factoring that into pdif for an average pdif... but the way you did it is kinda weird and doesn't work. Also the blood rage nerf makes this one not as bad a little in a way

**Prothescar** · 2011-12-23 22:33

Feel free to point them out, I don't see any.

my pDIF calculations based on personal/friend's findings:

Spoiler: show

**Deader2818** · 2011-12-23 22:35

Honestly, no matter how you spin it, its stupid. Fix actual problems, don't take the easy route and nerf things just so you can mask actual issues.

**Prothescar** · 2011-12-23 22:37

Overall stupid yes, but as I've said, compared to possible other outcomes this one was favorable. Again, my issue lies in those screaming bloody murder that the weapon they worked for is somehow now less valuable than it was previously. What if this nerf was done sooner? Time seems to be the biggest factor here.

**dasva** · 2011-12-23 22:38

Ok assuming that's what the 1.21 is and that's what you are doing it looks like you are only apply +crit dmg to the part of crit pdif that is more than normal instead of the whole crit pdif.

**Prothescar** · 2011-12-23 22:43

It's applied to the average pDIF, factored in directly after crit rate. What would you suggest?

**dasva** · 2011-12-23 22:46

crit pdif*crit rate*crit dmg+ non crit pdif*1-crit rate

**Prothescar** · 2011-12-23 23:00

Not entirely sure how I overlooked that, you are correct.

35%: 2165

15%: 1918

247 damage difference.

Edit: Actually hm, will have to have another look at this and do a bit of research to refresh myself on something.

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